Jump from homebrew to a brewery

a small research i made a see that 500 liters systems usee 25kw of heating elements, with this kw i need about 2 hours to heat from 22 to 99 celscius the 500 liters with 80% Efficiency, acording to this calgulator https://gettopics.com/en/calc/water-heating-calculators
For 3 hours i spend about 27€ for electricity, is not a crazy number for propane i need 12-13 for 3 hours for each batch!
 
Mastoras007 said:
a small research i made a see that 500 liters systems usee 25kw of heating elements, with this kw i need about 2 hours to heat from 22 to 99 celscius the 500 liters with 80% Efficiency, acording to this calgulator https://gettopics.com/en/calc/water-heating-calculators
For 3 hours i spend about 27€ for electricity, is not a crazy number for propane i need 12-13 for 3 hours for each batch!
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It is very dependent on the brewhouse setup. my system is slow and annoying, but i came from steam. I would assume that your manufacture is giving "best case" numbers. it also depends on what your gravity is.

I would heat your hot liquor tank up over night so that you walk in to hot water. You will be running the HLT the entire brew day. the mash will be running for 2 hours and the kettle will be running likely for 2 hrs.

What was said above is to be sure that you have the amperage needed at your address. i have seen breweries in planning fail because they didnt have the power they needed. it is very expensive and takes a long time to upgrade your service in the states.
 
Bigbre04 said:
It is very dependent on the brewhouse setup. my system is slow and annoying, but i came from steam. I would assume that your manufacture is giving "best case" numbers. it also depends on what your gravity is.

I would heat your hot liquor tank up over night so that you walk in to hot water. You will be running the HLT the entire brew day. the mash will be running for 2 hours and the kettle will be running likely for 2 hrs.

What was said above is to be sure that you have the amperage needed at your address. i have seen breweries in planning fail because they didnt have the power they needed. it is very expensive and takes a long time to upgrade your service in the states.
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the building i'm planing to use have 3 phace current, i thing i don't need more than avaliable.
But anyway probably i will use propane,
Truth is i don't have any manufacture for this, i'm planing to construct this, i will use 3 big pots 700-1000 liters each, i will buy the heating elements and a friend electrician will help.
But i will use also propane burner direct on the each pot as needed, this one https://originalpaella.com/paella-gas-burner/70-cm-paella-burner.html
with the corect regulator and setup i can take 35kw of heating, this is a monster, use it manual of course.
 
i will adjust pipes, false bottom etc on the tanks-pots,
i will use recirculation with pump for mashing
 
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Mastoras007 said:
i will adjust pipes, false bottom etc on the tanks-pots,
i will use recirculation with pump for mashing
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ventilation is super critical! look up what a "grant" is. this is a pretty simple design that would be fairly easy to build. you can even add a float switch to make it semi automated.
 
Mastoras007 said:
the building i'm planing to use have 3 phace current, i thing i don't need more than avaliable.
But anyway probably i will use propane,
Truth is i don't have any manufacture for this, i'm planing to construct this, i will use 3 big pots 700-1000 liters each, i will buy the heating elements and a friend electrician will help.
But i will use also propane burner direct on the each pot as needed, this one https://originalpaella.com/paella-gas-burner/70-cm-paella-burner.html
with the corect regulator and setup i can take 35kw of heating, this is a monster, use it manual of course.
Click to expand...
Those burners are approved for outdoors
 
This is not the sort of thing that you should put together without a really good plan and design. This is where it really departs from anything that homebrewers experience.
You won't be moving things around or making changes without major disruption of infrastructure. Everything must be safe for a hazardous environment, all electrical must be completely waterproof and properly grounded with fault interrupter circuits, vessels must be hard-plumbed with stainless pipe and welded fittings, pumps must be in the right place and easy to control, brewhouse control area must be safe from boil-over and other potential problems, you have to make full accommodations for cleaning in place of all vessels, especially fermenters, valves and controls have to be fool-proof so you don't dump a batch of wort into the wrong place or fill an active fermenter with cleaning products. So much to think about!!
Get professional help with this part of it! Any extra money that you have to budget will be repaid many times over in uninterrupted and profitable operation. :)
 
My plan is to use 2 tanks 700-1000 liters (approved for boiling) make some setups on them temperature controls pipes valves etc, I will use those tanks for the starting, wen - if the project start to produce some profit, I will probably go for a ful New brew house.
I can't afford to buy it now, I have spoken to government inspector i will not have problem use those tanks if they are stainless steel, that's what they only care
Of course electrician will connect every electrical component,
Also those tanks will not have isolation that's a problem but as I said I will brew 5-10 times maximum 20 just for the first year.
That's a quick design i made
Same logic will be kettle without Falce bottom, the top pipe will have angle that way that can wilrpool wort during recirculation so i can wilrpool it before heat exchanger.
received_1742352356347156.png
 
A question about heat exchanger, what if i don't use, put the hot wort in to fermentor and cool it down by unitank jacket cooling system?
I want to avoid heat exchanger contaminations and in general simplify all system
-1 to -5 Celsius of glycol , and about 1,5m2 of contact cooling area on unitank i think will cool it down very fast, or not? Any suggestion for that @Bigbre04 ?
 
It looks like your trying to step up a home brew system to do 500 liters. Cant see it . First off those burners will be throwing a lot of heat thats not going to be concentrated on the boil. You better have air conditioning. Cant imagine the fire or safety inspector signing off on that. Cooling that much wort with what you're talking is going to be super slow. How many and what size fermenters? Efficiency is the key if you want to provide a product cheaper than the competition.
 
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500 liters unitanks 2 pieces and 1 Bbt
I can skip the propane,if i meet those problems, it will cost almost nothing anyway.
you are correct I'm trying to scale up a homebrew system
I have already a pilot system that I use with recirculation pump, heating element 2kw , I'm brewing on that 15 liters batches.
But let me say this, I have seen systems time to time at Facebook pages for example watching systems like this,
I visited a brewery some months ago, he has a system like that but isolated, same logic with 24kw heating element.
Truth is as you hear it seems to be wrong, but is exactly same logic (logic not design) with most of brew house selling on Alibaba!
 
Mastoras007 said:
500 liters unitanks 2 pieces and 1 Bbt
I can skip the propane,if i meet those problems, it will cost almost nothing anyway.
you are correct I'm trying to scale up a homebrew system
I have already a pilot system that I use with recirculation pump, heating element 2kw , I'm brewing on that 15 liters batches.
But let me say this, I have seen systems time to time at Facebook pages for example watching systems like this,
I visited a brewery some months ago, he has a system like that but isolated, same logic with 24kw heating element.
Truth is as you hear it seems to be wrong, but is exactly same logic (logic not design) with most of brew house selling on Alibaba!
Click to expand...

So when i was in Puerto Rico i saw a lot of breweries on the island running cobbled together systems. It is do-able, but you have to spend money on certain things. Temp control on your ferementers is SUPER important. CIP is SUPER important, probably the most important factor. Selling beer and getting your sales side setup and maintained is probably the ACTUAL most important aspect.

Mastoras007 said:
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B0D7H...=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWw
That's the heat exchanger I'm planning to use 50 plates
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Heat exchangers are very important gear. Buy a brewery rated one that is properly sized. The CIP chemicals will literally chew through that copper. You will also want to be able to Disassemble the Heatex every other year or so. If the Heat ex is undersized it will take forever to knockout and you run the risk of DMS. The flow-rate and exchange rate are important as is accurate temperature control. I use a 2 stage heat exchanger(one side is glycol @ 0C and the other is street water.

Filling the tank hot and letting it cool is EXTREMELY risky with pro level gear. It is very very likely that you will implode your tanks by doing this and you will definately suck your bubble bucket dry.

You will also need bulk food grade CO2 and O2.

Everything must be rated for contacting beer and the proper chemicals. Beer is very acidic and can strip metals over time. 304/316 SS is the industry standard.

Proper welding is also important for avoiding heavy metals, leaks, and infections.

There is a big divide between homebrew setups(even super advanced ones like i run) and pro level gear.
 
Bigbre04 said:
So when i was in Puerto Rico i saw a lot of breweries on the island running cobbled together systems. It is do-able, but you have to spend money on certain things. Temp control on your ferementers is SUPER important. CIP is SUPER important, probably the most important factor. Selling beer and getting your sales side setup and maintained is probably the ACTUAL most important aspect.
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Ofcours will spend money, here i found some used brewhouses for example 270 liteers system cost 25k (used) is not worth it, to mutch money for nothing
i will buy from china wen i i can afort it, but i must start from somewere
tempreture control will be good, also CIP


how long time takes for you to cool down wort? how long is ok to cool 500 liters?
 
Mastoras007 said:
Ofcours will spend money, here i found some used brewhouses for example 270 liteers system cost 25k (used) is not worth it, to mutch money for nothing
i will buy from china wen i i can afort it, but i must start from somewere
tempreture control will be good, also CIP


how long time takes for you to cool down wort? how long is ok to cool 500 liters?
Click to expand...
so my Heat ex is WAY oversized, long story, but that presents its own challenges. It takes me anywhere from 35 mins 55 mins depending on how cold i need the wort to be.

I whirlpool for 20 mins and rest for 20 mins. i generally cool my wort down to about 180 as soon as boil is complete. Generally you want to minimize the amount of time that wort is in the whirlpool. I would say you want to be transferring to the FV as soon as you can. I have had power go out during a brew day and you are working against a clock to avoid DMS and other off flavors. The design of your gear can help to mitigate some of the danger.
 
You adjust the outlet temperature of wort by controlling the wort pump?
Can you hit the pitching temperature directly? Even to a lager?
 
Mastoras007 said:
You adjust the outlet temperature of wort by controlling the wort pump?
Can you hit the pitching temperature directly? Even to a lager?
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ya for sure. if i slow it down, my glycol would drop it into the 40f. I can knock at 55 at a fairly quick pace. or not use the glycol and restrict my street water and transfer really quick at 96-104f. It is a balancing act between flow rates. i have a digital temp probe on the outlet of the heat ex so that i know my temps fairly accurately.

I have a Variable speed controller on my pump. I use a ball valve on the outflow of the glycol that has a gauge on it to show % open. My hose has a ball valve on it.
 
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