Kolsch v Kolsch

[Bigbre04]

Yeah, most of those yeasts don't mind temps in the lower-mid 60s. I usually run 5-gallon incubator batches like that. The time difference in holding high 50s for the first few days isn't much and the beer is a little cleaner and lets the malt come through a little better. It's nice to have that when using a good pilsner malt with subtle flavor or when there's a fair percentage of Munich in an amber lager which can get a little sweet/almost fruity on it's own.

A good juicy is sort of like printing money in a taproom - fast, simple brew, quick turnaround, always popular with a broad cross section of customers.

exactly.

clean lagers at 10 days without actual lagering time is a god send for my setup, its by far my best seller. i generally have to brew 4 bbls a month of that brand alone. I only have 4 tanks so things get hectic if i have to lager for long periods.

 

[J A]

exactly.

clean lagers at 10 days without actual lagering time is a god send for my setup, its by far my best seller. i generally have to brew 4 bbls a month of that brand alone. I only have 4 tanks so things get hectic if i have to lager for long periods.

Yeah...I worked the numbers and logistics of running a 3.5 barrel brewhouse and 4 tanks and lagers mess with the schedule if you can't turn them at the same rate as everything else. A 2-week turn and 2 brew days a week was absolute minimum. At least one double fermenter and a brite or two increases capacity immensely.

 

[Bigbre04]

Yeah...I worked the numbers and logistics of running a 3.5 barrel brewhouse and 4 tanks and lagers mess with the schedule if you can't turn them at the same rate as everything else. A 2-week turn and 2 brew days a week was absolute minimum. At least one double fermenter and a brite or two increases capacity immensely.

even worse. im running a 2HL brewhouse and pushing out 2bbls per brew filling 4bbls into 3.5bbl tanks. honestly my turn times and volumes of tanks are not too bad. my IPAs are 7 days grain to glass, lagers are 10 days, ales are 7 days unless dryhopped. i generally brew 2-3 times a week in the height of the summer. In the winter im brewing 1-2 a week.

I dont transfer to brite ever. no finings either. i did transfer once, but i loose too much volume on the transfer so i only got 3.5 kegs out of a single turn batch. i am also really really limited on cooler space. i have 8 draft lines but only have an 8x8 cooler that i share with the kitchen. i can store a maximum of 40 1/2 double stacked. i double batch my best sellers/year arounds(golden lager and session IPA). so they take up 2 lanes each leaving a single lane for each other draft line. i also use exclusively cryo hops since big hop loads kill my volumes and i wont end up with full kegs. this limits me on my varieties significantly.

also im on the second floor w/o an elevator...so that is fun.

yesturdays brew was number 177 on this system!

 

[J A]

Good stuff^^^ That's similar to a nano in Langley Washington that I visit when I'm in the area. He started on probably a half barrel system and over the years upped to a 1 barrel. Moved to a bigger space so may have upsized his system by now. Always had 5 or 6 beers running. Very cool little space on a side alley with a small, cozy bar area a nice patio area for summer tourist traffic. I've always been envious of that set up - laid back, great vibe, perfect size for the location and customer base, small footprint with low overhead.
Not something you can pull off in a "major" market like Austin anymore. Back in the early days there were a few places like that here but nearly all are long gone. There are still a couple of 3.5 and 7 bbl breweries but mostly the only ones who can keep up with the increasing cost of leases or can afford to own their land and buildings are the bigger players with 30, 60, 100 bbl brewhouses and very large tank arrays.

 

[Bigbre04]

Good stuff^^^ That's similar to a nano in Langley Washington that I visit when I'm in the area. He started on probably a half barrel system and over the years upped to a 1 barrel. Moved to a bigger space so may have upsized his system by now. Always had 5 or 6 beers running. Very cool little space on a side alley with a small, cozy bar area a nice patio area for summer tourist traffic. I've always been envious of that set up - laid back, great vibe, perfect size for the location and customer base, small footprint with low overhead.
Not something you can pull off in a "major" market like Austin anymore. Back in the early days there were a few places like that here but nearly all are long gone. There are still a couple of 3.5 and 7 bbl breweries but mostly the only ones who can keep up with the increasing cost of leases or can afford to own their land and buildings are the bigger players with 30, 60, 100 bbl brewhouses and very large tank arrays.

thats really interesting. On the east coast the big guys(30+ bbl) brewhouses are closing shop all over the place. We are hoping to expand in the next year or so to a 5-7bbl brewhouse in a savannah and do light distribution. might even get absorbed by a large restaurant group and supply beer for a bunch of restaurants in town.

I see 30bbl systems on brew bids for just over scrap prices. 2 came onto the market in ATL last week.

3-7 bbl systems are scarce and people are buying them up as soon as they come onto the market.

 

[J A]

thats really interesting. On the east coast the big guys(30+ bbl) brewhouses are closing shop all over the place. We are hoping to expand in the next year or so to a 5-7bbl brewhouse in a savannah and do light distribution. might even get absorbed by a large restaurant group and supply beer for a bunch of restaurants in town.

I see 30bbl systems on brew bids for just over scrap prices. 2 came onto the market in ATL last week.

3-7 bbl systems are scarce and people are buying them up as soon as they come onto the market.

We've already gone through the small guys and now the mid-size operations that started in the last couple of years are having their come to jesus moments. The well-established 20s and 30s still seem to be hanging in but there are plenty in that size range that are closing down or have done so recently. Agree about the small systems and plenty of other brewery equipment being available. It's still tempting but absent a very energetic younger working partner and a deep-pocketed financial partner, I'm not going anywhere near starting anything. And I suspect that the next year or two is not going to be peachy for the US economy overall.
Besides, I got other shit to do. There's hunting in the fall and sailing in the summer and maybe getting back to playing a little music in between.

 

[Bigbre04]

We've already gone through the small guys and now the mid-size operations that started in the last couple of years are having their come to jesus moments. The well-established 20s and 30s still seem to be hanging in but there are plenty in that size range that are closing down or have done so recently. Agree about the small systems and plenty of other brewery equipment being available. It's still tempting but absent a very energetic younger working partner and a deep-pocketed financial partner, I'm not going anywhere near starting anything. And I suspect that the next year or two is not going to be peachy for the US economy overall.
Besides, I got other shit to do. There's hunting in the fall and sailing in the summer and maybe getting back to playing a little music in between.

Do it all! i dunno that the next few years are gonna be great....

 

[Brew Cat]

Seems to me the market is saturated. A new place opens and gets a bump then the next place opens and the cycle starts. Just recycling the same drinkers. When I was in the restaurant business the guy I knew who made a lot of money explained. He would get investors then open a restaurant then sell on the bump. Then rinse and repeat .

 

[Bigbre04]

kolsch seems to be finished! 12.2p to 2.2p on day 4. 5.6%abv and 82% attenuation! It is tasting really really good this morning! its capped for the day. I will probably leave it capped and warm until tomorrow to confirm that it is finished but that is a solid fermentation time!

 

[Sandy Feet]

I haven't brewed the style, so I don't have a right to comment on the recipe. What I will say is that I frequent a place that makes a very tasty beer labeled as a Kolsch. Initially, I wasn't a huge fan until the yeast got changed to something that is supposed to be a little more traditional. Now, I love it. If I am having a good time and want to stick around for a little bit longer, I always have a 1/2 pour before I leave. It also helps to have an enjoyable beer that is still in the 4s when you have to drive home among the crazies on the East West Expressway these days.
I used to always give Big Bre shit about the complicated recipes. I liked the idea of backing off and making it simple
I wonder if it is the brand of Pils not being noticeable? I like to use the floor malted stuff in mine or something else by Weyermann that gives it what I call the "Pilsner Bite". I can notice a good Pilsner. In mine, I really notice it in my latest German beer. I also very much notice it in the Saisons.
I'm not making a living off mine, and the malts that I like tend to be more expensive.

 

[Bigbre04]

I haven't brewed the style, so I don't have a right to comment on the recipe. What I will say is that I frequent a place that makes a very tasty beer labeled as a Kolsch. Initially, I wasn't a huge fan until the yeast got changed to something that is supposed to be a little more traditional. Now, I love it. If I am having a good time and want to stick around for a little bit longer, I always have a 1/2 pour before I leave. It also helps to have an enjoyable beer that is still in the 4s when you have to drive home among the crazies on the East West Expressway these days.
I used to always give Big Bre shit about the complicated recipes. I liked the idea of backing off and making it simple
I wonder if it is the brand of Pils not being noticeable? I like to use the floor malted stuff in mine or something else by Weyermann that gives it what I call the "Pilsner Bite". I can notice a good Pilsner. In mine, I really notice it in my latest German beer. I also very much notice it in the Saisons.
I'm not making a living off mine, and the malts that I like tend to be more expensive.

I bought a pallet of Canada malting co. pils at one point and adjusted all of my recipes for the pils malt. Price wise it was basically the same(maybe $.72 vs $.73 /lb) as my normal 2R malt, but it had a lower DP hence having to adjust recipes for it. I couldnt tell a difference between the exact same recipe(golden lager) that i brew very regularly.

I used to use Maris Otter as a flavor malt, but i cant justify the added cost to use it as my base malt. MO is much more expensive then CMC 2R. I dont know that you would really be able to tell the difference between a beer brewed with fancy base malt vs normal cheap 2R.

I see the pils bite as being more of a yeast/hop flavor then a grain flavor.

 

[Brew Cat]

Well it depends on your pallet. I would agree maybe in a hoppy beer but in a pilsner and Kolsch you may be able to tell. I'm not saying one would be better than the other. On tap now I have an experiment going. My Czech pilsner brewed exactly the same one Wey standard pilsner and one Wey FM. I can taste a slight difference and others that had them also. One is not better than the other and its subtle. I just unpacked an order of Scandinavian Viking Pilsner to try next. The Viking is a bit cheaper tha the Weyerman even though its organically grown. I generally don't use domestic grain in my European beer. More for tradition. For my American pils style of course I wouldn't hesitate

 

[Sandy Feet]

I bought a pallet of Canada malting co. pils at one point and adjusted all of my recipes for the pils malt. Price wise it was basically the same(maybe $.72 vs $.73 /lb) as my normal 2R malt, but it had a lower DP hence having to adjust recipes for it. I couldnt tell a difference between the exact same recipe(golden lager) that i brew very regularly.

I used to use Maris Otter as a flavor malt, but i cant justify the added cost to use it as my base malt. MO is much more expensive then CMC 2R. I dont know that you would really be able to tell the difference between a beer brewed with fancy base malt vs normal cheap 2R.

I see the pils bite as being more of a yeast/hop flavor then a grain flavor.

I can definitely taste it with plain old 34/70 and Hallertau, but I get it. That floor malted shit is expensive too. 5 gallons doesn't cost a lot a couple of BBLs does. Hopefully, things get settled in the next few weeks so they don't tariff the crap out of your malt.

 

[Bigbre04]

I can definitely taste it with plain old 34/70 and Hallertau, but I get it. That floor malted shit is expensive too. 5 gallons doesn't cost a lot a couple of BBLs does. Hopefully, things get settled in the next few weeks so they don't tariff the crap out of your malt.

the floor malted stuff is REALLY expensive. I am actually working on a grain order(down to 3 batches worth of 2r). my normal Canada Malt Co 2r is $.71/lb. CMC pils ranges from .72-.79. MO is .96-.99. German pils is .85...all of this before the Gulf of Mexico became the (Gulf of america)....

Its all about scale. I am ordering thousands of lbs at a time so those ~.20/lb really adds up, especially when you factor in the lower DP.

add to that that if i dont tell you that im using one vs the other you wouldnt even know or care if the beer is good.

 

[Brew Cat]

the floor malted stuff is REALLY expensive. I am actually working on a grain order(down to 3 batches worth of 2r). my normal Canada Malt Co 2r is $.71/lb. CMC pils ranges from .72-.79. MO is .96-.99. German pils is .85...all of this before the Gulf of Mexico became the (Gulf of america)....

Its all about scale. I am ordering thousands of lbs at a time so those ~.20/lb really adds up, especially when you factor in the lower DP.

add to that that if i dont tell you that im using one vs the other you wouldnt even know or care if the beer is good.

Never thought about that Tarriff BS
I generally don't usr Canada Malt I use either domestic or Continental but they will go up also. That's just how it works

 

[Bigbre04]

Never thought about that Tarriff BS
I generally don't usr Canada Malt I use either domestic or Continental but they will go up also. That's just how it works

domestic malts were already way more, briess thinks very highly of their product. the smaller guys are significantly more. Rahr and CMC are what the majority of commercial breweries use, either bags or silo fills.

 

[Brew Cat]

I use a lot of Rahr and Weyerman, and Faucet. But the thing about small batch is it's not going to break the bank trying different maltsters. Ive recently been using Crisp and Viking. Viking had some good prices on FM at Howdy Brewing. Think he has sold out though.

 

[Bigbre04]

I use a lot of Rahr and Weyerman, and Faucet. But the thing about small batch is it's not going to break the bank trying different maltsters. Ive recently been using Crisp and Viking. Viking had some good prices on FM at Howdy Brewing. Think he has sold out though.

They all produce very high quality grain, you could slot in the base malt from basically any of them and be happy. I did borrow some proximity base malt that i didnt like. it was very grassy smelling. The brewery that i borrowed it from said that it translated into the beer, they ended up dropping it and going back to CMC.

 

[Sandy Feet]

How is Riverbend in price compared to the others? I was just curious. I know in a couple of places when I was asking questions, and they were using Riverbend, that beer was tasty. I don't know how much damage they would have sustained where they are located either.

 

[Bigbre04]

How is Riverbend in price compared to the others? I was just curious. I know in a couple of places when I was asking questions, and they were using Riverbend, that beer was tasty. I don't know how much damage they would have sustained where they are located either.

never even heard of riverbend. I get my malt from Country malt or from Brewers supply group.