kegging for dummies

[Mark Farrall]

It's in use at the moment, I'll post one in a couple of days when the beer is in bottles. It uses two plastic carbonation caps, the plastic t-piece and the top off a standard water/soft drink bottle.

 

[Craigerrr]

A hole in the fridge for a hose to pass through perhaps.

Yeah... no. I have two 10lb co2 bottles which last forever even using co2 to push liquid around. I typically clean, sanitize, and purge kegs two or three at a time, then I end up with multiple cleaned, sanitized, and purged kegs ready for beer. I understand and respect your process though, sounds like a good method. The bigger reason for me to use co2 to push liquids around is my back, I can't lift Jack!

 

[Craigerrr]

I use one keg just for storing sanitizer, you could say it is pretty well passivated!
C&S means cleaned, sanitized, purged, and ready for beer!

 

[Josh Hughes]

Fridge can't close if I leave CO2 connected plus it being difficult to get the cylinder filled, I want to use as little as possible.

I topped up CO2 today.
How long do you keep the CO2 connected to do this @Josh Hughes?
And how many drinks can you pour, before topping up again?
Once done, do you take off the regulator or keep it attached?
I got the regulator attached for now. But the main gauge is still reading the cylinder pressure (while cylinder is closed). I'm tempted to release pressure by pulling the pressure relieve valve, but it got one of those non-tamper thingies attached. Maybe just because it was/is new?

I get a few pint before I need to add more. Depends on the style and how much beer is left in the keg.

 

[Zambi]

Thanks Josh
Yeah seems to depend on the head space.
So my beer carbonated with sugar got plenty CO2. Poured some beers and just topped it up a bit at the end of the evening, so it's ready for the next day.
I could hear the CO2 move from the cylinder. When I stopped hearing it, I left it for a little longer, then switched off

 

[Craigerrr]

Thanks Josh
Yeah seems to depend on the head space.
So my beer carbonated with sugar got plenty CO2. Poured some beers and just topped it up a bit at the end of the evening, so it's ready for the next day.
I could hear the CO2 move from the cylinder. When I stopped hearing it, I left it for a little longer, then switched off

I understand your concern for conserving co2, but once the beer is carbonated leaving the line connected won't consume any co2.
Your only concern there would be if you had a leak. You could put you lines (connected to the tank) in a bucket of water to make sure you have no leaks, and spray starsan on your connections to the keg to make sure you have no leaks. If you are happy with kegging and plan to continue with it long term it would be wise to have a second tank.

 

[Zambi]

I understand @Craigerrr ,
But it is 2-way
I'm not going to drill any hole in the 12 volt solar fridge I am using as the thing is easily twice the price of an electrical.
And I can't run an extra electical as I am on solar.
How's that for catch 22!
So for now, it gotta go like it gotta go
I'll work towards a dedicated set up, but for now it got to go with topping up
And frankly: I think that can just work OK
Pour 2 or 3 glasses, quick top up and continu. Fridge is open for 2 minutes for top up

 

[Zambi]

And seperate:
My experience with my spunded cider:
Setting was at around 14 psi @ 70 F, for about a week.
Whole story: apple juice on keg trub. 2 days with loose lid. Then 4-5 days with spunding valve at below 5 psi.
Slowly upped to 14 psi due to 15 psi limit on gauge
Another 7 days or so.
Then to fridge
Theoretically it should drop to 3.5 psi, but it didn't. Maybe the yeast got depressed by the pressure? And when pressure dropped, got a little active?
Anyway, drop was to 9 psi.
Carbonation is absolutely fine by me although theoretically it should be 1.6 volume CO2
Experiment ended as I started drinking the cider

 

[Craigerrr]

I understand @Craigerrr ,
But it is 2-way
I'm not going to drill any hole in the 12 volt solar fridge I am using as the thing is easily twice the price of an electrical.
And I can't run an extra electical as I am on solar.
How's that for catch 22!
So for now, it gotta go like it gotta go
I'll work towards a dedicated set up, but for now it got to go with topping up
And frankly: I think that can just work OK
Pour 2 or 3 glasses, quick top up and continu. Fridge is open for 2 minutes for top up

Sorry, didn't mean to flog a dead horse on this

 

[Zambi]

No worries at all
I learn a bit from every single post and with all of you forum people I've already come a long way.

I know I need to change my system, but I can't do it right now. And I didn't think this through enough when I ordered the kegs.
But by working this way and cutting corners, finding ways to make things work I'm going to be well aware on how to go ahead.

I liken it a bit to start of brewing on a stove top, fully manual.
You will learn so much and make so many mistakes. Now if you decide you want to go for an all in one system, you know what to look for.
As opposed to starting of, buying a grainfather and punching in numbers because thats what the manual says.

And no offence to people that go that route. Perfectly valid, but just not my way

Which brings me to kegging disadvantage. Too easy to pour and no bottles lying around as warning of consumption

 

[Craigerrr]

Oh yes, I remember when I first started kegging! I made a few messes!

 

[Zambi]

You see now

(Typical Southern African colonial English expression)

 

[Donoroto]

Yeah... no. I have two 10lb co2 bottles which last forever even using co2 to push liquid around. I typically clean, sanitize, and purge kegs two or three at a time, then I end up with multiple cleaned, sanitized, and purged kegs ready for beer. I understand and respect your process though, sounds like a good method. The bigger reason for me to use co2 to push liquids around is my back, I can't lift Jack!

More dead horse here.
Uhh, there can be other hoses, not just one through the fridge wall. Quick connect on both ends.

OK, I think it's really dead now.

 

[Sunfire96]

And seperate:
My experience with my spunded cider:
Setting was at around 14 psi @ 70 F, for about a week.
Whole story: apple juice on keg trub. 2 days with loose lid. Then 4-5 days with spunding valve at below 5 psi.
Slowly upped to 14 psi due to 15 psi limit on gauge
Another 7 days or so.
Then to fridge
Theoretically it should drop to 3.5 psi, but it didn't. Maybe the yeast got depressed by the pressure? And when pressure dropped, got a little active?
Anyway, drop was to 9 psi.
Carbonation is absolutely fine by me although theoretically it should be 1.6 volume CO2
Experiment ended as I started drinking the cider

Adding another horse to this race track...CO2 volumes are temperature dependent. A beer at 3-3.5 vol CO2 at 40'F is different than the same beer at fermenting temps. The built in carbonation calculator in the recipe editor will tell you what PSI is needed at fermentation temp to reach 3-3.5 vol CO2 at serving temp. That's one of the reasons I chose a spunding valve that is rated up to 50 psi. I increase pressure over fermentation to 12 psi, but then crank it up to 30ish psi while at room temperature. There's lots of helpful carbonation charts vs temperature if you do some googling. Or use the built in calculator. You can tell it your desired volume of CO2 and your ferm temperature and it will spit out what psi is needed

 

[Zambi]

Adding another horse to this race track...CO2 volumes are temperature dependent. A beer at 3-3.5 vol CO2 at 40'F is different than the same beer at fermenting temps. The built in carbonation calculator in the recipe editor will tell you what PSI is needed at fermentation temp to reach 3-3.5 vol CO2 at serving temp. That's one of the reasons I chose a spunding valve that is rated up to 50 psi. I increase pressure over fermentation to 12 psi, but then crank it up to 30ish psi while at room temperature. There's lots of helpful carbonation charts vs temperature if you do some googling. Or use the built in calculator. You can tell it your desired volume of CO2 and your ferm temperature and it will spit out what psi is needed

Thanks
Thing is, this gauge only goes to 15, otherwise I would have cranked it up.
BUT, even though it all is tenperature dependent (I'm aware of the formula) it is not the only thing at play.
The pressure did not drop as low as expected (to 3.5 psi) but stayed at 9 psi.
Apparently this has to do with the head space. I had 5.0 - 5.5 litre juice in a 8 litre keg.
I'm still working through the calculations though

 

[Mark Farrall]

@Zambezi Special Some pics of the setup to add ball lock posts to Speidel fermenters. This is a very low pressure solution. It will only take 2-3 psi before it starts leaking. If you added some electrical tape it might hold more, but I don't want it to hold more. I'd prefer that it leaked once it got to 3 or more psi rather than doing a small explosion. And that's enough pressure to do a CO2 transfer to the keg.

Here's the assembled view.

And the various pieces. Most pieces are just Kegland parts. The most important part is just the top of a soda water bottle. I cut it off with just under 1 cm of extra length than it should need. Then tighten it on to the fermenter using that locking ring and leave it for 10 minutes or so. When you take it off the plastic is shaped so you can trim off the excess. The float means you can add it to the top opening of the fermenter and just close off the bottom opening.

I've also done it with the larger PET bottles, like a Gatorade bottle. That will let you attach the tapping head you're already using. I haven't used that one as it feels a bit top heavy with the 12 litre fermenter. It would probably work better on the larger fermenters, but at those volumes I prefer the all rounder.

 

[Craigerrr]

@Zambezi Special Some pics of the setup to add ball lock posts to Speidel fermenters. This is a very low pressure solution. It will only take 2-3 psi before it starts leaking. If you added some electrical tape it might hold more, but I don't want it to hold more. I'd prefer that it leaked once it got to 3 or more psi rather than doing a small explosion. And that's enough pressure to do a CO2 transfer to the keg.

Here's the assembled view.

View attachment 24738

And the various pieces. Most pieces are just Kegland parts. The most important part is just the top of a soda water bottle. I cut it off with just under 1 cm of extra length than it should need. Then tighten it on to the fermenter using that locking ring and leave it for 10 minutes or so. When you take it off the plastic is shaped so you can trim off the excess. The float means you can add it to the top opening of the fermenter and just close off the bottom opening.

View attachment 24739

I've also done it with the larger PET bottles, like a Gatorade bottle. That will let you attach the tapping head you're already using. I haven't used that one as it feels a bit top heavy with the 12 litre fermenter. It would probably work better on the larger fermenters, but at those volumes I prefer the all rounder.

Just keep in mind that speidels are not rated for pressure. Also keep in mind that 3 psi doesn't sound like much, the potential force you are dealing with is per square inch of interior surface area. You may have a 100 or 200 or more square inches there. Multiplied x 3, that is a lot of potential energy. Just be careful is all I am saying.

 

[Zambi]

Thanks Marc, that's clever!
I'll start playing with it once the fermenter is free
I think I got the required pieces and otherwise I just have to release my inner McGyver.
To be continued

And thanks Craig. I'll be carefull