kegging for dummies

[Craigerrr]

When you're doing this with the oxebar kegs make sure the container you're pushing the sanitiser into is higher than the keg. If not you'll end up getting a siphon going and the walls of the keg will start to collapse as there's not enough CO2 coming in to keep it inflated.

I have to disagree. I use this set up with 2L PET pop bottle to clean and sanitize beer lines. I have never had one collapse, I "push" it out using 10PSI the pop bottle stays very firm with pressure through this process.

 

[Craigerrr]

Thanks!
I wouldn't have thought of that!

Since the oxebar kegs are light, I thought of just pouring in some sanitiser, shake etc and then just empty out by putting it upside down
Since I will get oxygen coming in when transferring from fermenter to keg, it seems overkill to purge the keg.

I would still recommend purging your keg before filling, for with the best way is to push the sanitizer out with co2, I don't think that this is overkill at all, and it only takes a couple of minutes.

 

[Zambi]

The material of the oxebar is (feels) quite different from a standard pet bottle.
Almost like it is more brittle.
But that's an aside.

Why would it be good to purge the keg with CO2 if it is open after that to enable transfer?
I know CO2 is heavier, but the gases will mix anyway
Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[Craigerrr]

The material of the oxebar is (feels) quite different from a standard pet bottle.
Almost like it is more brittle.
But that's an aside.

Why would it be good to purge the keg with CO2 if it is open after that to enable transfer?
I know CO2 is heavier, but the gases will mix anyway
Inquiring minds want to know...

O2 won't just rush in when you open the top to fill, I believe that this is a sound practice. I can promise you however that if you DON'T purge your keg that you WILL absolutely have unwanted contact with o2. When I filled kegs like this I would also drape a starsan soaked paper towel over the opening just to keep anything unwanted from finding its way in.

 

[GFHomebrew]

You can purge your oxbar with your fermentation co2 i do it every single brew session.

Connect a tube (blow off tube) to your liquid post on the oxbar then pull the prv on the oxbar to let the gasses mix.

There is plenty of co2 produced from fermentation to fully purge that bottle.

Want to go a step further fill it with sanitizer and push it out through your liquid line by Connecting the fermentation line to the gas port clear as mud!

Awesome thing with this method is your transfer line gets purged and flushed with sanitizer than co2 great for them low o2 transfers on them hop forward bevvys

 

[Mark Farrall]

I have to disagree. I use this set up with 2L PET pop bottle to clean and sanitize beer lines. I have never had one collapse, I "push" it out using 10PSI the pop bottle stays very firm with pressure through this process.

No problem with the smaller PET containers. I've used 2.5 litre ones and had no problems.

But the 8 litre oxebar kegs that Zambezi is using are much taller and the plastic is different to standard PET. The sides collapse if you have the return container for the sanitiser below the keg. I've done it twice now.

 

[Zambi]

They are quite sensitive to low pressure.
Mine arrived dented.
I never thought of the altitude pressure difference. They came from 1750 metres (closed bottles) and went to 330 metres
If I order again, I'll have to ask to either put a little pressure in them or to leave the lid off

 

[Craigerrr]

No problem with the smaller PET containers. I've used 2.5 litre ones and had no problems.

But the 8 litre oxebar kegs that Zambezi is using are much taller and the plastic is different to standard PET. The sides collapse if you have the return container for the sanitiser below the keg. I've done it twice now.

Even when using 10PSI to push the sanitizer? I'm not following how this is possible

 

[Zambi]

Speculation on my side:
I suppose if your liquid goes out faster than your CO2 comes in, it could maybe happen.
But not if the receiving vessel is higher as then it can only be CO2 pushing out liquid.
Maybe

Both kegs are full, but once ready for use I'll try purge them as it won't do any harm (but I'm trying to save CO2 as it is not readily available).
Would it really be necessary to fill the whole keg with sanitiser? I only got 2 kegs that will be in constant use and no other convenient option to store that much. I mainly just make 2 litres at the time

 

[Craigerrr]

Speculation on my side:
I suppose if your liquid goes out faster than your CO2 comes in, it could maybe happen.
But not if the receiving vessel is higher as then it can only be CO2 pushing out liquid.
Maybe

Both kegs are full, but once ready for use I'll try purge them as it won't do any harm (but I'm trying to save CO2 as it is not readily available).
Would it really be necessary to fill the whole keg with sanitiser? I only got 2 kegs that will be in constant use and no other convenient option to store that much. I mainly just make 2 litres at the time

Nothing is necessary really, you just have to decide how you want to do this.
If you fill it 1/2 full of sanitizer, then you will be mixing air and co2 at roughly 50/50.

 

[Zambi]

If you fill it 1/2 full of sanitizer, then you will be mixing air and co2 at roughly 50/50.

Ah, the penny finally dropped!

 

[Mark Farrall]

Even when using 10PSI to push the sanitizer? I'm not following how this is possible

I'm pushing with CO2 from fermentation, so it's not much more than 1 psi. I'm using a squat 10 litre glass carboy to store the sanitiser. As the keg is so tall a siphon effect takes over and the sides start to collapse. I just need to put the carboy on a chair so that the tubing runs slightly uphill and there's no problem.

A photo might help here.

 

[Craigerrr]

I'm pushing with CO2 from fermentation, so it's not much more than 1 psi. I'm using a squat 10 litre glass carboy to store the sanitiser. As the keg is so tall a siphon effect takes over and the sides start to collapse. I just need to put the carboy on a chair so that the tubing runs slightly uphill and there's no problem.

A photo might help here.

View attachment 24626

Nothing 9 more PSI's wouldn't rectify, I see your point now, one PSI would move the liquid dreadfully slow, and I could see gravity creating a vacuum in that case.

 

[Mark Farrall]

You can purge your oxbar with your fermentation co2 ... Awesome thing with this method is your transfer line gets purged and flushed with sanitizer than co2 great for them low o2 transfers on them hop forward bevvys

I'd been thinking about purging transfer lines with CO2 after watching one of the Treehouse brewery videos. I know it makes a difference with commercial lines and quantities, but I was thinking it was such a small amount at home brew level that it wouldn't be worth it.

This approach will work well with my standard practice. I just have to keep the disconnects on the line for a few more days. Thanks for the tip!

 

[GFHomebrew]

I'd been thinking about purging transfer lines with CO2 after watching one of the Treehouse brewery videos. I know it makes a difference with commercial lines and quantities, but I was thinking it was such a small amount at home brew level that it wouldn't be worth it.

This approach will work well with my standard practice. I just have to keep the disconnects on the line for a few more days. Thanks for the tip!

No wuckers mate been doing this pressure ferment / closed transfer thing for awhile now.

I don't push sanitizer anymore just purge the keg with fermentation co2.

I guess with all us brewers using different means to obtain the same objective you just pic and choose what you wanna build into your process.

All I can say is beer I've got sitting in my kegs from before Christmas that we're o2 mitigated are still fresh and ready to drink

Just not me

 

[Craigerrr]

Interesting that you purge kegs with fermentation co2. I'm not sure how I could go about that. I ferment in an allrounder with a spunding valve on it, which is in a small fridge, no room for a keg in there

 

[Zambi]

@craigerr
I have just seen a post about something likewise on hbt. Let me see if I can find it back

Well not so similar, but may just work.
Entry 18.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...-corny-critique-my-plan.725657/#post-10237421

 

[Donoroto]

Interesting that you purge kegs with fermentation co2. I'm not sure how I could go about that. I ferment in an allrounder with a spunding valve on it, which is in a small fridge, no room for a keg in there

A hole in the fridge for a hose to pass through perhaps.

 

[Mark Farrall]

Interesting that you purge kegs with fermentation co2. I'm not sure how I could go about that. I ferment in an allrounder with a spunding valve on it, which is in a small fridge, no room for a keg in there

I've got a noisy old kegerator as a ferm fridge. In one of the holes near the top I've got liquid and gas tubing coming out. They each have a plastic carbonation cap at the end. Inside the fridge I just connect them up to the corresponding disconnects on the fermenter (Allrounder and small Speidel fermenters).

Then on top of the fridge I mix and match depending on the stage of the fermentation. At the start I'll generally connect the blow off bottle to the gas carbonation cap. Once I can see that fermentation is going I'll disconnect the blow off bottle and connect it to the keg full of sanitiser. Once that keg is empty I'll connect the gas to the spunding valve if I'm kegging.

If I'm bottling I'll add the mylar balloon and fill it up, then connect it to the blow off bottle until fermentation is finished. For the photo above I'm crashing before bottling so I've got the mylar balloon on the gas line. Then for bottling I connect a bottling wand to the liquid carbonation cap and the gas cylinder to the gas carbonation cap to push the beer out of the fermenter. All the fermenters are set up with a floating liquid pickup. I don't have to touch the fermenter until the packaging is complete.

 

[Zambi]

Interesting Mark!

Do you have some pictures of how you connect to your speidel fermenter?