Frustrated... (Tilt/Kindle)

[Minbari]

To get back on track at least a little bit though, if you have all the latest Win10 updates on an older computer, your PC may be your friend. I find that most of the sleep functions of my aging desktop have ceased to work at all, and my machine is staying awake at all times. Even the video. That would make a perfect data collector, if it had Bluetooth hardware. Alas, I didn't think I'd need it when I bought the machine, and it was optional at that time for desktops. I figured WiFi and thick wire ethernet would cover everything I'd ever want to do with it. I've double, triple, and quadruple checked the settings. They're exactly where I want them, but not doing the job they did before the last round of updates[and yes, my computer is plugged in and I have rebooted it]. I must have SOMETHING set to wake it or keep it awake (probably Windows Update set that way by Microsoft and unchangeable). Finding the culprit is the trick, much like possibly selecting the right parameter to keep the Kindle awake. Having a Kindle or two around as well, I might consider using the app and BF, but only if I can get the data back at my leisure to have a closer look and do my own analysis.They don't use as much energy as a PC, and pretty sure it can run a background app while playing music (to no headphones) to stay awake. The screen will still blank, but it won't shut off. I use my Kindle for a bluetooth player in my truck sometimes. Keep it pluged in to a power source to keep the battery up, it'll play music forever. If it ain't connected to speakers or bluetooth audio device, who care's what it plays?
.
I bookmarked both the Tilt and Plaato for more reading. Tilt angle versus bubble counting, hmmmmm. Could argue the air-lock method is cleaner, but after my last three batches coming through the air-lock, maybe not. Then again, knowing the ferment temperature might give me the opportunity to prevent that by slowing fermentation just a little bit. I'd have to have a second unit on stand-by if the air-lock got plugged with yeast/krausen. One would think the ENTIRE fermentation cycle information would be valuable, but if the fermentation process is so aggressive that a blow-off is needed for a couple days, I can see where the Plaato might not be the optimal hardware. To each his own, but it's looking like a 'floater' is going to win my decision.



Certainly can't do much about other thoughts popping into my head that are related to the subject (temperature/SG monitoring/control) or something I see in a picture in the thread (the immersion heater). I try to keep it relevant, but sometimes feel a need to ask questions about what I see. I guess I could grab the quote and start a new thread, but call me lazy or ADD if that's what needs to happen. I've been called a lot worse by people that actually know me, and that didn't bother me either. I'm not sure how I'd create a new thread from a quote, or if that's even possible in this forum. OH, LOOK! A SQUIRREL!!!! I have a 13 year old granddaughter that's lived with us since she was 2 months old. Her complete lack of attention span I'm sure is contagious. Good thing her lack of filter isn't. 13 year olds can get away with a lot more sarcasm than adults, and with her, there's never a doubt about what she's thinking, if you can keep up.

As for what I was saying/asking about the immersion heater, I was trying to clarify if when the element fails, does it blow a hole in the SS thermowell and destroy/contaminate the batch, or just simply quit working. Sterility shouldn't be an issue if you're about to boil something, right? But carbon/slag contamination probably would be a big no-no for a flavor enhancer. So, can it be removed and replaced without transferring the batch to another vessel while you repair? Feel free to reply to this with a status message or whatever the heck they call it on here to get it out of the thread so it doesn't bother anyone. I have access to many different sizes of similar heater for air-chamber heaters to keep electrical switchgear dry. Both thermowell type, as well as exposed cal-rod type.

I tend to agree with you on that one. people seem to say they work, but batch size, type, yeast, etc are all factors that will effect those bubbles and as you mentioned if the krausen pushes through it, then you have to clean it to make it work again. the floaters work no matter what, with the exception of a little inacuracy if the co2 bubbles collect on it. but I have found this to be a case that only happens for a day or two and not continously

for me personally I just use an aquarium heater. 300 watts is way more than you need for 5 gallons. when they fail, they ussualy just stop working.

 

[Mark Farrall]

...As for temp control using the tilt as the sensor? I am sure it is possible...

If you want to go down another rabbit hole there's a whole bunch of brewing automation projects based on using a raspberry pi as the hub. Nearly all can use the tilt data to control various devices. Projects like CraftBeerPi and BrewPi. Most of them have hardware bundles they'll sell you, but they also have a DIY stream to use your existing devices/Raspberry Pi.

 

[Mark Farrall]

To get back on track at least a little bit though, if you have all the latest Win10 updates on an older computer, your PC may be your friend. I find that most of the sleep functions of my aging desktop have ceased to work at all, and my machine is staying awake at all times. Even the video. That would make a perfect data collector, if it had Bluetooth hardware. Alas, I didn't think I'd need it when I bought the machine, and it was optional at that time for desktops...

Bluetooth dongles used to be pretty cheap.

 

[Minbari]

If you want to go down another rabbit hole there's a whole bunch of brewing automation projects based on using a raspberry pi as the hub. Nearly all can use the tilt data to control various devices. Projects like CraftBeerPi and BrewPi. Most of them have hardware bundles they'll sell you, but they also have a DIY stream to use your existing devices/Raspberry Pi.

I love rabbit holes! LolI use a pi for my tilt.
But it is just the tilt fw

 

[Marz]

...Tilt angle versus bubble counting, hmmmmm. Could argue the air-lock method is cleaner, but after my last three batches coming through the air-lock, maybe not. Then again, knowing the ferment temperature might give me the opportunity to prevent that by slowing fermentation just a little bit. I'd have to have a second unit on stand-by if the air-lock got plugged with yeast/krausen. One would think the ENTIRE fermentation cycle information would be valuable, but if the fermentation process is so aggressive that a blow-off is needed for a couple days, I can see where the Plaato might not be the optimal hardware. To each his own, but it's looking like a 'floater' is going to win my decision.

I personally have not used a Tilt but when it comes to Plaato, I have not thought twice about my decision. Sure, if you have an aggressive yeast then sure, it will likely try and come out the top but you can use the Plaato with a blow-off tube to avoid that. Depending on the setup, if you're using a carboy then they make bungs that would work perfect for that, fermzilla then there are two airlocks on it which you can do one airlock and the other a blow-off or just ferment under pressure. If you're going old school and using a bucket with a single hole on the lid, you can either drill a second hole or use one of these - Duotight Push-In Fitting Tee

I used the Plaato with a cider which I had used Lalvin EC-1118 Wine Yeast which is an aggressive monster while in my Fermzilla and did not have a need for a blow-off although it got close.

One thing to mention too, if someone is experiencing overflow regularly, then it would be good to consider a smaller batch for the size fermenter being used or get a bigger fermenter. I'd recommend a 60/40 wort/headspace specifically for this reason, if someone is going upwards of 70-80+% space occupied by just wort, then you might find more times than not that you will need a blow off.

I tend to agree with you on that one. people seem to say they work, but batch size, type, yeast, etc are all factors that will effect those bubbles and as you mentioned if the krausen pushes through it, then you have to clean it to make it work again. the floaters work no matter what, with the exception of a little inacuracy if the co2 bubbles collect on it. but I have found this to be a case that only happens for a day or two and not continously

Like I mentioned with my setup, I set the Plaato to learning mode for 3 brews and then turned it off and has been pretty spot on ever since, you select the OG from a dropdown list and then select the type of yeast you are using (not the brand and all that, just American Ale or Kveik or even Wine/Champagne yeast and then start the brew. My cider was doing upwards of 600 bubbles per minute and I know this because it was counting each one and still came out with an accurate FG. My recent batch was an Ale yeast and it only peaked at about 400 bubbles per minute and was only fermenting for 36 hours before Plaato told me it was done. I checked the gravity in Plaato and it was 1.016 and I then did a gravity reading with hydrometer and got 1.006 but was at 77 degrees Fahrenheit and I had to convert it for 60 degrees based on my hydrometer and it came out to 1.008. So we are talking about an accuracy of up to 0.008

 

[Marz]

Already have the (unused otherwise) Kindle, so... Going to try to make it work. Once in developer do I have to have the screen on all the time?

Have you gotten this working yet? I rerouted this entire thread talking about how great the Plaato is as if you were interested in alternative options lol.

Go into the Kindle settings, scroll all the way down and tap on About Tablet or About Kindle or something like that, then once in there, go all the way to the bottom and just start spamming the row that's says "Build X.X.X" and after 8 taps it will ask of you're sure you want to enable developer mode.

Once enabled, go back to settings page and go to the bottom and look for "Developer Options" then look for "Stay Awake" and enable it. Note that it will only work while the Kindle is plugged in.

Also, Tilt claims it can only stay connected via Bluetooth within 25 feet of the device so make sure it's pretty dang close to the Tilt.

Lastly, ensure you don't have any task killer apps installed or "optimization" apps as well as the built in battery optimization is turned off as that could also cause you some headache.

 

[Minbari]

I personally have not used a Tilt but when it comes to Plaato, I have not thought twice about my decision. Sure, if you have an aggressive yeast then sure, it will likely try and come out the top but you can use the Plaato with a blow-off tube to avoid that. Depending on the setup, if you're using a carboy then they make bungs that would work perfect for that, fermzilla then there are two airlocks on it which you can do one airlock and the other a blow-off or just ferment under pressure. If you're going old school and using a bucket with a single hole on the lid, you can either drill a second hole or use one of these - Duotight Push-In Fitting Tee

I used the Plaato with a cider which I had used Lalvin EC-1118 Wine Yeast which is an aggressive monster while in my Fermzilla and did not have a need for a blow-off although it got close.

One thing to mention too, if someone is experiencing overflow regularly, then it would be good to consider a smaller batch for the size fermenter being used or get a bigger fermenter. I'd recommend a 60/40 wort/headspace specifically for this reason, if someone is going upwards of 70-80+% space occupied by just wort, then you might find more times than not that you will need a blow off.



Like I mentioned with my setup, I set the Plaato to learning mode for 3 brews and then turned it off and has been pretty spot on ever since, you select the OG from a dropdown list and then select the type of yeast you are using (not the brand and all that, just American Ale or Kveik or even Wine/Champagne yeast and then start the brew. My cider was doing upwards of 600 bubbles per minute and I know this because it was counting each one and still came out with an accurate FG. My recent batch was an Ale yeast and it only peaked at about 400 bubbles per minute and was only fermenting for 36 hours before Plaato told me it was done. I checked the gravity in Plaato and it was 1.016 and I then did a gravity reading with hydrometer and got 1.006 but was at 77 degrees Fahrenheit and I had to convert it for 60 degrees based on my hydrometer and it came out to 1.008. So we are talking about an accuracy of up to 0.008

That is not great. 8 points off is allot. The tilt has never been off more than .001 and you don't have to tell it anything since it directly measures

 

[Marz]

That is not great. 8 points off is allot. The tilt has never been off more than .001 and you don't have to tell it anything since it directly measures

Tilt is advertised as being as accurate as 0.002 and Plaato is ALSO advertised as being as accurate as 0.002. I only did 3 batches with learning mode, my first batch without using learning mode was way off. They recommend doing 5-7 batches in learning mode before turning it off and letting it run its own course so if I were to let it learn more then I know it would be more accurate than my reading of yesterday being different by 0.008, and no 0.008 is not a lot considering it is guessing what the gravity is without even touching the wort.

 

[Minbari]

That is not great. 8 points off is allot. The tilt has never been off more than .001 and you don't have to tell it anything since it directly measures

I am glad you like it and it works for you, but 8 points is alot. 1.016. Is to hell and gone from 1.008.

Kinda my point. The tilt requires no setup and just works out of the box.

 

[Marz]

I am glad you like it and it works for you, but 8 points is alot. 1.016. Is to hell and gone from 1.008.

Kinda my point. The tilt requires no setup and just works out of the box.

Hence the topic of this thread right?

 

[Minbari]

Hence the topic of this thread right?

Yup. I hope i am not coming off as a dick lol. Just good comparison

 

[Marz]

Yup. I hope i am not coming off as a dick lol. Just good comparison

No not at all.

I'll eventually get a tilt or two or build a couple of my own instead for when I get to multiple simultaneous brews and don't want to spend $130 for each Plaato. Although I spent 6 hours yesterday reverse engineering my Plaato to upgrade it to support 5ghz wifi from only 2.4ghz. so if I'm able to successfully do that then I might just build a couple more of them considering there is nothing proprietary about using an ESP-8266 chip other than the code on it lol

 

[Minbari]

No not at all.

I'll eventually get a tilt or two or build a couple of my own instead for when I get to multiple simultaneous brews and don't want to spend $130 for each Plaato. Although I spent 6 hours yesterday reverse engineering my Plaato to upgrade it to support 5ghz wifi from only 2.4ghz. so if I'm able to successfully do that then I might just build a couple more of them considering there is nothing proprietary about using an ESP-8266 chip other than the code on it lol

Is the EEprom or flash internal to the chip or does it use external storage?

Personally for data that operates in kb not mb, 2.4ghz works fine. Hell 802.11b would work. 2.4ghz has better range and obstacle penetration too

 

[Marz]

Is the EEprom or flash internal to the chip or does it use external storage?

It can be either or as the ESP has anywhere from 4-8mb of flash storage. I have an ESP8266MOD that has 8mb and have full control over each pin and have tons of storage space left over

Personally for data that operates in kb not mb, 2.4ghz works fine. Hell 802.11b would work. 2.4ghz has better range and obstacle penetration too

Well my issue is that I have a mesh wifi network (2.4 and 5ghz are the same SSID and cannot be changed individually) and my Plaato did not like that so I had to turn on my guest network for 2.4 only and separate ssid and all that just for Plaato so that I don't have to disable my 5ghz on my main network

 

[Minbari]

It can be either or as the ESP has anywhere from 4-8mb of flash storage. I have an ESP8266MOD that has 8mb and have full control over each pin and have tons of storage space left over



Well my issue is that I have a mesh wifi network (2.4 and 5ghz are the same SSID and cannot be changed individually) and my Plaato did not like that so I had to turn on my guest network for 2.4 only and separate ssid and all that just for Plaato so that I don't have to disable my 5ghz on my main network

You should be able to see the code then. Disassemble it might be the trick

I don't have a mesh. Most cheap ones are single radio mesh which is pointless. Good quality dual radio work, but in a space as small as a house I opted for multiple zones with APs for each. The basement has its own ap so the brewery runs on that. Its 2.4ghz. Upstairs where speed is more important is where the 5.8ghz lives.

 

[naDinMN]

I'm just a poor farm kid/carpenter from Wisconsin...way too high tech for me. I just pull a sample after two weeks and see if the glass ball floats to the right number.

I agree, it is way to expensive, but I do a lot of pressure lagering. 2-weeks in a keg at 12.5 and it tastes like a 40 day lagered beer. Brilliant. I want to have a little more insight into the end product though.

 

[Tim Bulin]

I agree, it is way to expensive, but I do a lot of pressure lagering. 2-weeks in a keg at 12.5 and it tastes like a 40 day lagered beer. Brilliant. I want to have a little more insight into the end product though.

Hell I just got an iSpindel. And I’m blaming this thread for the bad influence...

 

[Minbari]

I mean honestly. Is anyone here in this hobby to save money on beer? Pretty sure if I added it up. My beer would cost $57 a bottle lol

 

[Donoroto]

I mean honestly. Is anyone here in this hobby to save money on beer? Pretty sure if I added it up. My beer would cost $57 a bottle lol

Ahhh, you must be a wizard for it to be so reasonably priced...

 

[Tim Bulin]

Ahhh, you must be a wizard for it to be so reasonably priced...

Life's too short to drink bad beer.