First time brewing a Helles

Nosybear said:
I've started using dry yeast where I can, it needs no oxygenation
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So wait a second: Dry yeast need not be oxygenated? Hunh.

Is there any harm from oxygenating a dry yeast pitch?
 
Donoroto said:
So wait a second: Dry yeast need not be oxygenated? Hunh.

Is there any harm from oxygenating a dry yeast pitch?
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I was speaking with the North American rep for Fermentis about a year and a half ago, he presented at a home brew club meeting.
You do not need to aerate up to 1060 wort, this was part of his presentation.
I have routinely pitched into 1063 wort and had no issues whatsoever.
While I do have the wort splashing into the fermenter pretty good, I have pitched the next day into 1063 wort and had no issues.
Of course there is no harm in oxygenating, it just isn't required.
 
I was poking around the web last night and quickly fell down the rabbit hole of the dry yeast debate. I have no intention of going down that path here but upon reading post after post, I'm feeling comfortable just pitching the entire packet of 34/70 into 2.5 gallons. Hopefully, this brew goes well and the next batch will be a full 5 gallon. Next time I'll get some liquid yeast, make a nice big starter, and have enough to pitch and some to save for the next batch. I'm not "really" cheap, just "kinda" cheap. For $7-8 a pack for yeast, I like to get at least a few batches out of each.
 
mrskittle said:
I was poking around the web last night and quickly fell down the rabbit hole of the dry yeast debate. I have no intention of going down that path here but upon reading post after post, I'm feeling comfortable just pitching the entire packet of 34/70 into 2.5 gallons. Hopefully, this brew goes well and the next batch will be a full 5 gallon. Next time I'll get some liquid yeast, make a nice big starter, and have enough to pitch and some to save for the next batch. I'm not "really" cheap, just "kinda" cheap. For $7-8 a pack for yeast, I like to get at least a few batches out of each.
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$7-8 a pack for dry yeast? Time to shop around.
 
I can get S-05 for $4 a pack so I think that's reasonable, but this lager yeast surprised me. If I can get a pouch of liquid lager yeast for the same price I'm happy to propagate and use it for a few batches in a row.
 
Donoroto said:
Is there any harm from oxygenating a dry yeast pitch?
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No. I aerate when I underpitch ales, but not to the level of a liquid yeast. Dry yeast has sterol and lipid reserves from the dehydration process. Liquid yeast does not have these reserves. The most important component is lipids, the yeast either needs lipids in the cell/wort or it needs oxygen to produce it. Without the lipids the yeast cannot produce healthy cell walls during reproduction. It can create petite cells and cell walls that are described as "hard". It impedes the exchange of nutrients into the cell and waste out of the cell.

I always aerate lagers.
 
mrskittle said:
I can get S-05 for $4 a pack so I think that's reasonable, but this lager yeast surprised me. If I can get a pouch of liquid lager yeast for the same price I'm happy to propagate and use it for a few batches in a row.
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Shop around, the price varies quite a bit from shop to shop.
 
Thanks. I'd been oxygenating everything, using a 1.4 oz cylinder from Home Depot (at $11 each) that last maybe 4 or 5 batches (1 minute at about 1 liter/min flow into a carbstone). I am switching to an aquarium pump and 4-5 minutes of air. Except for cases where I need more O2 than that, air will be the way from now on.
 
mrskittle said:
Speaking of price, I was a little surprised that the packet of 34/70 was $8 at my LHBS. That's about $4 more than a packet of S-05. What gives? Is lager yeast typically more expensive?
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Yeah I noticed that at mine too, Mangrove Jack California Lager which is allegedly room temp was cheaper so I grabbed that too.
 
mrskittle said:
Speaking of price, I was a little surprised that the packet of 34/70 was $8 at my LHBS. That's about $4 more than a packet of S-05. What gives? Is lager yeast typically more expensive?
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Haven't looked at the whole palate available...but I definitely pay close to 2x for WLP-34/70 (my current go-to yeast) than US-05 (my past go-to yeast). Which is at least one reason why I have reverted back to reusing yeast, at least for a couple of brews back to back...
...and regarding a starter, I am still working on what the "best" strategy is with fresh yeast. Harvested left over a couple of weeks is obvious, a starter is necessary, but 2x packets of dried yeast vs. a starter, the jury is still out.
 
Josh Hughes said:
The Killian’s approach? It’s a lager right?
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I currently have a case of Killians and it states on the box that it is an ale. It's a really good Irish Red. Smooth, malty with a touch of roasted barley flavor. I've been using Killians and Smithwicks as a gauge for the Irish Red I am working on.
 
How did yours turn out @BarbarianBrewer ? A few weeks ago we were both making one. I’m happy with how mine turned out. Going to try some fuggles in it next time
 
Or it’s both? Ale yeast fermented cold and lager Ed or the other way around. This brewing stuff is fun! I do know I like killians but been a while.
 
Josh Hughes said:
How did yours turn out @BarbarianBrewer ? A few weeks ago we were both making one. I’m happy with how mine turned out. Going to try some fuggles in it next time
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It didn't turn out so well :(. The first batch using this recipe turned out fairly well, though a little sweet. I had reduced the American roasted barley because the recipe calculator said it was going to be too dark. So, for this second batch I restored the roasted barley to it's previous amount and hoped that would reduce the sweetness. But this second batch turned out almost cloyingly sweet. The descriptor I find on American roasted barley is "Sweet, grainy, coffee flavor and a red to deep brown color".

But, that's not the only issue. There is also a distinct diacetyl (buttery) flavor in the beer. The possible causes of diacetyl: feeble/short boil, low fermentation temp, mutated yeast, racking too soon, bacterial contamination. None of those are likely.
  • I had a rolling boil for an hour, though the wind did cause the boil periodically reduce.
  • I created a starter off of a fresh pack of Wyeast 1084 and fermented at 62F (17C), the bottom of the yeast's temperature range.
  • I had it in primary for 24 days before bottling
  • Afterwards, I removed and cleaned the ball-valve and thermometer on my boil kettle. There was something black on the thread tape that I assumed to be a burn mark and not mold, but of all the improbables, this is the most probable :oops:.
  • One other possibility was the hops. The bags of fuggles were about 1/3 dust and didn't have much aroma. I assumed they were abused during shipping but, maybe they were just old and couldn't balance out the malt sweetness.

Next weekend I hope to brew this again but this time I will replace the American roasted malt with British roasted malt (which does not carry the sweet descriptor) and English brown malt.
 
I’m sure the next one will be great. I really English roasted barley over the American roasted that I bought when I started. I like English brown. Used it in a porter, a brown ale, a Scottish, and my Christmas ale.
 
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