Water adjustments

I have a 2 stage carbon filter on a hard water faucet. I use that for brewing, with no treatment at all. No salts, no campden tablet, nothing. I get results that I like. Maybe I’m lucky with the water in my area.
 
Thanks for all the inputs so far. I'm aware that I probably trying to overdo things, being a newbie. Like thinking of water adjusting even before I have had my first sip of my brew :confused: but I guess I just want to try to do as good as I can from beginning.

However, yesterday me and wife had the first bottle of my first IPA. The outcome was actually as I expected, although not what I hoped for. I don't know why I expected what I did, it just have been a feeling I've had.

I usually don't over analyse the beer I'm drinking, just categorise it as like/don't like. I know what I like, but not by analysing every flawor, aroma etc in the beer. But if I should analyse this beer for a second, I would say... very dry, thin, no mouthfeel, no aftertaste at all. It's like water with hops, to use my wifes words. There wasn't any bad taste, no real off flawor. The alcohol wasn't very noticeable when drinking, but finishing a .5 liter bottle you could feel a bit afterwards.

Does this mean anything to someone? It was as I mentioned my first brew, and probably did mistakes, but I can't recall making any major ones. I followed a recepie from a friends brew I had been tasting just a month earlier.
 
Head First said:
There are a lot of things about learning to brew that are more important than perfect water. It just needs to be close. Usually if it tastes good to drink and has the chlorine removed you can brew with it. As was pointed out earlier there's lots of other items in the process with more influence on the outcome of the beer.
The sodium level recommended by "Bru n Water" is below 60mg/L. There is a possibility of a mineral taste above that. So that softener could be a problem.
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Yes I probably, for my next brew, bypass the softener to see if it makes any change, thanks! But out of curiosity, apart from the sodium level, what else will that affect my water, given my water report?
 
ok I might have some time later, if you could please post a recipe and give your water report Ill give you an example of how I would do it, thanks
 
Thanks!

This is the recepie I'm considering for my next brew, a British Northern Brown Ale

Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill%
1.5 kg Finland - Pale Ale Malt 36 2 68.2%
0.25 kg Finland - Dark Ale 35 14 11.4%
0.2 kg Belgian - Biscuit 35 23 9.1%
0.15 kg Finland - Crystal Malt 100 35 38 6.8%
0.1 kg United Kingdom - Pale Chocolate 33 207 4.5%
2.2 kg Total

10 g Target Pellet 11.5 Boil 60 min 34.1
5 g East Kent Goldings Pellet 10 Boil 10 min 5.38
7.5 g East Kent Goldings Pellet 10 Boil 0 min

Mash at 67C for 75 min, boil time 60 mins
Nottingham ale yeast

My water report:

|Ca+2 | Mg+2 | Na+ | Cl- | SO4-2 | Alkalinity | pH |
+-----+------+-----+-----+-------+------------+-------+
| 8 | 2 | 94 | 8 | 20 | 240 (HCO3)| 7.2 |
 
ok your salt is way too high and to get a balanced water profile you would have to use 1/2 distilled or RO water. which is probably going to need other things to balance, so you might just consider brewing without your softener and get a report, since you're on a well and you probably have a standard sediment filter after the pump, I would suggest you tee off before the softener then add a carbon filter then get a report from that and we can get a better balanced water for you
 
Thank you, yes that's what's been mentioned earlier too by other good people here! I appreciate all the input given... will get back on this issue once I've bypassed the softener and got myself a new water report.
 
Water is complex, no doubt. I think the conservative approach of bypassing the softener is a good one. Question: Unsoftened, how does the water taste? Is there anything outstanding? When I lived in Kentucky, our water had a high sulfur content that dissipated quickly, leaving delicious water. Do you have detectable minerals? Iron? If not, try brewing a dark beer, say a stout or a porter, with it. Those respond well to hard water. And see what you get.
 
Nosybear said:
Water is complex, no doubt. I think the conservative approach of bypassing the softener is a good one. Question: Unsoftened, how does the water taste? Is there anything outstanding? When I lived in Kentucky, our water had a high sulfur content that dissipated quickly, leaving delicious water. Do you have detectable minerals? Iron? If not, try brewing a dark beer, say a stout or a porter, with it. Those respond well to hard water. And see what you get.
Click to expand...
I have a faucet inbetween my filter and my softener...noticed that today when I was checking, haven't seen that one before :D will have a sample taste tomorrow. Stout or porters aren't really my kind of beers unfortunally, I wouldn't be able to tell if its a good or bad one hehe
Was a long time since I had one though, and got turned off by it, but my preferences might have changed since then, who knows....things do sometimes.
 
I received a new water report today, this time sample taken from pre-softener. These are the new numbers

Ca+2 46
Mg+2 13
Na+ 23
Cl- 11
SO4 18
Alkalinity 250 (HCO3)
pH 7.1

Does it look any better? Certainly less sodium.

So out of curiosity, how would one treat this best for this recipe...the British Northern Brown Ale

Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill%
1.5 kg Finland - Pale Ale Malt 36 2 68.2%
0.25 kg Finland - Dark Ale 35 14 11.4%
0.2 kg Belgian - Biscuit 35 23 9.1%
0.15 kg Finland - Crystal Malt 100 35 38 6.8%
0.1 kg United Kingdom - Pale Chocolate 33 207 4.5%
2.2 kg Total

10 g Target Pellet 11.5 Boil 60 min 34.1
5 g East Kent Goldings Pellet 10 Boil 10 min 5.38
7.5 g East Kent Goldings Pellet 10 Boil 0 min

Mash at 67C for 75 min, boil time 60 mins
Nottingham ale yeast

Any suggestions? I've been looking into the water chemistry thing quite a lot last weeks, trying to understand it...and nothing beats a hands on experience, so inputs are very welcome ;)
 
Lots of temporary hardness: You can boil the water and precipitate a lot of the carbonate (HCO3) out. It'll take calcium with it so you'll want to add back 50 ppm of calcium as either chloride or sulfate or, in extreme cases, hydroxide (very dark beers with a lot of acidic malt). Without plugging the numbers into the calculator, it looks like you might be okay for the beer you're brewing with no adjustment. Chloride and sulfate are both so low as to provide no flavors.
 
good water, slightly high Alkalinity but nothing crazy, I wouldn't change anything for that beer and that water, its perfect, you just need to lower the ph so a half teaspoon of acid and your good
 
Thank you, I can feel a brew day is coming up soon :):)
 
don't use it for a blond or a lager but a brown is fine, for lighter beers or even pale ales Ill let you know when the time comes
 
Ozarks Mountain Brew said:
don't use it for a blond or a lager but a brown is fine, for lighter beers or even pale ales Ill let you know when the time comes
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Thank you that's much appreciated for sure!

When you guys make decisions about water, do you use Palmers Nomograph? (or you probably know by experience by now, but perhaps somewhere back in your head?) I understand by looking at the nomograph that the setup of my water is ok for darker beers, and I can see why it's not suitable for light/pale beers.

Theoretically...regarding the low numbers on SO4 and Cl, when I read recommendations for this kind of beer I see values like 100ppm and a SO4 to Cl ratio of about 1.5 to 1. Do you consider that kind of data? Or is just when something is way off that one need to be concerned? My numbers on those two is like a factor 6 or 7 from "recommendations".
 
I know from experience and how experimenting with different levels will effect different tastes in beers, it not only effects tastes but sometimes texture, now don't believe everything you read because everyone’s tastes are different, Just play around with the advanced calculator and look at the very bottom for the all green and the caption that says highly bitter or balance or very malty, but it’s a real balance when you start adding acid, it changes the levels, I mainly play with calcium chloride and gypsum to increases either calcium or SO4 to Cl ratio so good luck and don’t be afraid to ask
 
I brewed this today (the brown ale as above), and it went pretty well I think. I added about 2.5 ml of lactic acid to the mash water right before putting the grist in. Checked pH 10 minutes later, but thought it was a bit high. Was somewhat stressed right then (cooking dinner at same time...) so i forgot to write it down, but I think it was 5.7-5.8 or something so I added about 1ml more of lactic acid. Once mashing was completed I checked the pH once more and it was 5.5 at that point (room temperature).

Have a couple of questions though...

My first pH reading, the 5.7-5.8...or something like that, I took that when the temp. of the mash water was cooled down a bit, like 45-47C (115-120F). I have a milwaukee PH55 meter with automatic temperature compensation...am I right that it means the pH reading is shown as if it was at room temperature??

I pitched the yeast directly in the fermententor, I probably should have rehydrated ...have to remember that to next time. Anyway, I noticed afterwards when I attached the temp.probe to the fermentor that the temp. of the liquid was almost 23C (73F). The room it's sitting in is right now at 18C (64F), so it will cool down eventually. I had been thinking to start at lower temp., like 18C, and climb up a bit in some days. Will the journey from 23C to 18C for some hours affect the yeast negativly?
 
the temp change at first pitch wont effect anything as long as it’s not drastic over a few days, if it was lower like by 10 more the yeast would go dormant but I think your fine, all readings should be done at room temp but I don't myself, your mash is so thick and big it’s really hard to get a true reading for the whole mash so being close is fine, anything in the 5 range is ok, you can overdo it and lactic will put off a sour taste so be careful also you can overdo it the stir and later it’s too low, I’ve don’t that many times
 
So I'm thinking for my next brew I will do a pale ale and question arise whether I need to manipulate my water or not. The IPA I'm thinking of is https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/581332/baby-penguin-ipa, or something closely similar to that.

Given my water profile

Ca+2 46
Mg+2 13
Na+ 23
Cl- 11
SO4 18
Alkalinity 250 (HCO3)
pH 7.1

What would a suggestion be for any water treatment?
 
okoncentrerad said:
So I'm thinking for my next brew I will do a pale ale and question arise whether I need to manipulate my water or not. The IPA I'm thinking of is https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/581332/baby-penguin-ipa, or something closely similar to that.

Given my water profile

Ca+2 46
Mg+2 13
Na+ 23
Cl- 11
SO4 18
Alkalinity 250 (HCO3)
pH 7.1

What would a suggestion be for any water treatment?
Click to expand...
Start by boiling it to get rid of some of that carbonate! That'll get rid of calcium, too, so you'll have to add back gypsum or calcium chloride - with your low values for both, use either depending on whether you want malty (chloride) or bitter (sulfate) but be aware: Sulfate by itself can become harsh.
 
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