Step Mash

What are you adding to get to that profile? Chalk is generally a waste of time. If you need to bring the pH up a touch use baking soda, if you need to bring it up a lot use pickling lime. Though it's unusual to need to bring it up with that grain bill.

I'm generally just adding gypsum and calcium carbonate and acid to adjust. As was obvious from above I'm not much of a german beer style brewer so I'd be guessing more calcium chloride, but I'm sure the others will let you know the right emphasis. Favour the gypsum to emphasise the bitterness/crispness, calcium chloride to emphasis the maltiness.
 
The best way to add bicarbonates is with water that has it dissolved into solution. Chalk will dissolve into solution in the presence of co2, otherwise it drops out out of suspension.

Hardness is not something that can be easily added to water, a little hard water works well for me. The other way is sodium bicarbonate, which adds sodium to the beer. A little bit sodium can help with the beer, but if it gets above 100ppm it can come out as salty. I add sodium to my Oktoberfest and Dunkels, but I never exceed 20ppm. Sodium helps bring out the malt character if used in the right amount.

I use R/O water for the darker beers and the pH does start low in the mash, but by the time it hits the boil it lands around 5.2-5.3. A beer with a lower pH is still better than a beer with a high pH, at least from my experience.
 
Nola_Brew said:
I have the grains for brewing the Minuch Dunkel. This will be a 3 gal batch.
61% Munich Dark
30.5% Munich Light
4.8% Carafa II
3.8% Carafoam
1 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh @30 and 5 min
Wyeast Bohemian Lager 2124
OG 1.055 / FG 1.013
IBU 23
SRM 23.4
100% RO Water

Now my question is water profile
I chose the Munich Dark profile on BF.
Ca 82
MG 20
Na 4
CI 2
SO4 16
HCO3 320

I'm having trouble getting close to the Bicarbonate. I've never added chalk or baking soda. Haven't really messed around with the Bicarbonate levels.
Please provide some direction on how to achieve the correct profile for this style.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Don't worry too much about the bicarbonate. Get your mash pH to 5.4 and let it go. If you're obsessive about it, add baking soda to the proper amount then neutralize it with the acid of your choice.
 
As for as mash PH, i used to check it at the 10 min mark. I've actually never checked PH after the mash, during the boil or after. Mash PH has always been close to what Bru N Water shows. I've never brewed a dark beer before. Should I check PH at the 10 min mark then add Lactic or add it at the beginning? If my mash ph is at 5.2-5.3 would the PH increase during or after the boil to the point where I will need to adjust?
 
I entered my info into Bru N Water, using the Munich Water profile.
Target: CA 77/ Mg 17/ Na 4/ SO4 18/ CI 8/ Bicarbonate 295
Here's what I get when adding the following:
2.5g gypsum
2.3g epsom
1.3g pickling lime

CA 67.4/ Mg 11.7/ Na 8/ SO4 121.1/ CI 4/ Bicarbonate 32
Adding 2.5mL of Lactic in the mash gets my Ph to 5.2.

I cant seem to add or subtract without making one of the other fields increase or decrease.
The CA, Mg, Na are close but sulfate and Bicarbonate are way off.
If I leave the sulfate and Bicarbonate as is would that negatively impact the finished product?
I've never used pickling lime, chalk or baking soda in adjusting my water profile.
Nosybear suggested not to worry about the bicarbonate so i may just heed his advice and leave it at 32. Just not sure on the sulfate amts. Not even sure i can get pickling lime.
 
The pickling lime and lactic are working against each other. I'd drop the pickling lime and leave the lactic until your 5-10 minute check and only add it if you need it.

I'm also starting to wonder how important the water profiles are. I've stopped trying to adjust anything other than chloride to sulphate, just checking that the others are not obviously out of whack.
 
I read a post about the water profile for a Munich Dunkel.
That person used RO water and went with the following profile:
CI 30-40
CA 30
SO4 40
PH 5.3-5.4
Might just try this and hope for the best.

It's getting too frustrating trying to get close to the munich water profile.
 
Nola_Brew said:
It's getting too frustrating trying to get close to the munich water profile.
Click to expand...
That can become a fool's errand trying to "match" a city or region's water profile. It's not that precise, it's a ball park figure. The biggest thing is to keep the mash pH at 5.4-5.6 at room temperature. The pH will drop .2 or so at mash temp's, but it hard on the probes at that temp, so just substrate .2 from room temp pH and that will be your pH at mash temps.
 
I think I will keep it simple and just go with the below.
CI 30-40
CA 30
SO4 40
Mash PH 5.3-5.4
Hoping I can get my mash PH at 5.2-5.3 and should hopefully rise to 5.4 by boil time.
 
I struggled with Bru-N-Water trying to adjust my local water to match the profile. I discovered that if I used Distilled Water, all I had to do was enter the adjustments with starting profile of 0. It made getting the profile right without all of the gyrations. Distilled Water has 0 residual minerals. R/O Water has residual minerals that you have to adjust out while you are trying to match the Bru-N-Water profile. The downside is Distilled Water is $1 a Gallon @ King Soopers. 10 gal is my typical & $10 is one of the most expensive single ingredients in my brews.
Looking for a better source. Ideas?
 
The hardness of RO water is so close to distilled, it's not worth it. 10ppm of total hardness is likely the highest you will see. I don't believe you could tell the difference between RO and distilled both in the final taste or the mash pH.
 
Trying to get everything set up.
According to Bru N Water, if I add 1.5g each of Gypsum and Ca Chloride that will net me the below:
CA 41
SO4 45
CI 40
Also shows my mash PH to be 5.1 so I need 1g baking soda to get the PH up to 5.3. Should I stay there or get the mash PH to 5.4?
Adding baking soda also raises the Na to 22.5. Would the increase in NA be an issue or ok?
 
Nola_Brew said:
Trying to get everything set up.
According to Bru N Water, if I add 1.5g each of Gypsum and Ca Chloride that will net me the below:
CA 41
SO4 45
CI 40
Also shows my mash PH to be 5.1 so I need 1g baking soda to get the PH up to 5.3. Should I stay there or get the mash PH to 5.4?
Adding baking soda also raises the Na to 22.5. Would the increase in NA be an issue or ok?
Click to expand...
It's only .1ph off the 5.2 ph preferred mash ph window. I personally wouldn't sweat it better yet if you did have a ph meter check mash 5/10 mins in and check on before altering. who knows you may land higher than the calc predicts.

But either way 20ppm of NA surely won't ruin the beer...:rolleyes:
 
Nola_Brew said:
Also shows my mash PH to be 5.1 so I need 1g baking soda to get the PH up to 5.3.
Click to expand...
Mash calculators estimate the pH, a meter will measure it. The meter is the most accurate. Mash pH will change when mashing different lots of the same grain. Trailben is correct, a .1 change in pH is very small, especially when it's slightly lower which is better than higher. Most brewers land too high on the pH.

If it drops way low like 4.9 or so, add the baking soda.
 
Nola_Brew said:
Trying to get everything set up.
According to Bru N Water, if I add 1.5g each of Gypsum and Ca Chloride that will net me the below:
CA 41
SO4 45
CI 40
Also shows my mash PH to be 5.1 so I need 1g baking soda to get the PH up to 5.3. Should I stay there or get the mash PH to 5.4?
Adding baking soda also raises the Na to 22.5. Would the increase in NA be an issue or ok?
Click to expand...
Don't do that! Just leave the pH at 5.1, won't hurt anything and worst case your beer will be slightly tart.
 
Just about finished with the 90 min mash. I checked the PH at 10 min in and it was at 5.35 so I left it alone. I only added 1.5 g of gypsum and CI.
Going to check the PH again before the boil just to see how much it increased.
 
5.35 at room temp will give you @5.15 at mash temp. That’s a very good number, if it goes up after sparge, then add a small amount of acid. Boil pH should be 5.1-5.2. If the pH is 5.35 at mash temp, it’s better to leave it. It’s always easier to lower pH than raise it.
 
Its at boil now. I'll check the ph when it's done.
 
Room temp PH (after boil) measured 5.47. Took less than 12 hrs for fermentation to start. Sitting at 52. I have two weeks before my next brew so i can keep this in my fermentation chamber until then.

My plan is to bottle this batch and let it bottle condition for a month or so in my keezer vs conditioning in my carboy. Thoughts about this? Or would it be best to just leave on the yeast cake until I need my chamber in two weeks?

Also, in regards to diacetyl, I talked to someone at my HBS and he was saying that a diacetyl rest with 2124 isnt necessary. I've never used this yeast so looking for advice on if I should do one or not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Copyright © 2007-2025 Brewer's Friend, Inc. - Send Feedback - Terms - RSS Feed - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Back
Top