Star San

[J A]

I'm trying to convince myself that this noxious, caustic, toxic chemical (that requires poison control center assistance if it contacts your skin) is perfectly edible when dry.

In the form that we typically use it, it's very mild and non-toxic but it should be noted that in it's concentrated form it really should be handled with care. It's a highly caustic and dangerous acid in high enough concentrations. As is, of course, the acid that your stomach produces to digest food as well as the oxalic acid we use in powder form as an everyday cleaning agent and probably a dozen other things that we use routinely and take for granted.

 

[Nosybear]

One of the milk the funk guys mentioned it is detrimental to lacto and sacc.

Nope.

 

[Head First]

I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, but I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

All the resources I've read say that Star San is a completely safe, no rinse sanitizer.

I'm trying to convince myself that this noxious, caustic, toxic chemical (that requires poison control center assistance if it contacts your skin) is perfectly edible when dry.

My standard sanitizing procedure is using 90% isopropyl alcohol to wipe surfaces and coat carboy interiors, with boiling water inside the carboys, followed by 12 hours on a heat duct to dry.

Is there any advantage to switch to Star San? Or am I good the way I've been?

I have used lots of different sanitizers and settled with starsan. I buy a gallon of distilled water for a buck or two, mix it up and refill my handy li`l spray bottle. Super simple and cheap and will keep a long time (months). When ya spray make sure it gets all wet, simple as that. As Bob said ph will tell you if its still good. When it comes to cleaning lids and lips of yeast vessels I do use alcohol as it kills all. I even spray my hands down when handling equipment and I do still have all my fingers.

 

[I_playdrums]

Yeah nosy in a podcast I listened to. I'll find it. Sit tight.

 

[Mase]

Definitely safe for human consumption as JA points out when properly mixed. We used to keep a gallon jug full of Star-San until my wife poured it in her coffee maker (thinking it was a gallon jug of distilled water), and enjoyed a slightly foamy cup of coffee.

 

[Nosybear]

I believe everything I hear in podcasts and the Internet is 100% accurate.... Sorry for the snark, but the "chemicals are scary" movement is misguided. Star San is mostly phosphoric acid with a food safe surfactant, the stuff that makes it foam. It's moderately hazardous at full strength due to the acidity, hence the labeling and handling instructions. Diluted it's about as acidic as Coca Cola. Yeast and lacto are perfectly happy to grow at that pH. It's less acidic than your stomach acid. So I won't tell you how to make your beer, if you want to sanitize with organic ethanol it's your beer. But it's better to be informed.

 

[Mase]

On that note... I’m going to have to start asking fellow brewers how they clean their equipment, and more importantly, with what, before I start drinking any!

 

[Nosybear]

On that note... I’m going to have to start asking fellow brewers how they clean their equipment, and more importantly, with what, before I start drinking any!

And don't believe everything you read or hear in the Interwebs. Sensation draws eyeballs and eyeballs mean advertising revenue. So the Interwebs are mostly weighted toward sensation. One reason I like Brewers Friend is we pay for it so no need to use sensation to attract eyeballs.

 

[Orsonhornbeam]

Thanks for the kind words Craig.
When it appears that someone has tried to inject some dry wit into a post, when they could have just asked a simple question, I often will respond in kind. If that's condescending, I plead guilty.
You don't usually see that here, because most of the posts are straight to the point.

I apologize for taking it the wrong way, I understand you weren't trying to offend.

I understand that Star San works, but I suppose I was just curious about how it kills contaminant bacteria and other microorganisms, but not yeast. I know this isn't a chemistry or biology forum, so I'm not expecting a super detailed answer, but that was my original thought behind the question.

Also, I would put the carboy right side up on the duct, so there was no air going in, just alcohol evaporating out.

 

[ChicoBrewer]

I would suggest this podcast. It's quite interesting and it might answer some questions. I have personally never heard of using Isopropyl alcohol to sanitize brewing equipment. I'm fairly certain the cost is higher than Starsan. I can make 157 gallons of sanitizer with a 32 oz bottle of Starsan. That's roughly 15 cents per gallon. Isopropyl smells terrible and you can't re-use it like starsan. I also like the fact that I can put starsan in a spray bottle and spray things off without choking from fumes.

It is my understanding that it does kill yeast just not at the concentration that typically finds it's way into your fermenter after you have poured it all out without rinsing . . . by then it has done its job on all the critters in there.

Starsan is good.

Use Starsan.

You will be assimilated. . .

 

[Hogarthe]

If it wasn't harmful to yeast and lacto, wouldn't it be useless as a sanitizer? You wouldn't be killing off the stuff you are trying to get rid of....

Unless you mean the slight bit that's left over when you drain the carboy and fill it with wort. That bit is going to be too diluted with wort to hurt the yeast you are trying to ferment with.

 

[BOB357]

I apologize for taking it the wrong way, I understand you weren't trying to offend.

I understand that Star San works, but I suppose I was just curious about how it kills contaminant bacteria and other microorganisms, but not yeast. I know this isn't a chemistry or biology forum, so I'm not expecting a super detailed answer, but that was my original thought behind the question.

Also, I would put the carboy right side up on the duct, so there was no air going in, just alcohol evaporating out.

Apology accepted, but not necessary. I've found that being thick skinned is an asset in most forums, so little offends me. I also drink, and people who have been exposed to me know that I sometimes type faster than I think. You'll find the crowd here to be more friendly and less offensive than on most other forums.

Again, welcome..

 

[Ward Chillington]

I understand that Star San works, but I suppose I was just curious about how it kills contaminant bacteria and other microorganisms, but not yeast. I know this isn't a chemistry or biology forum, so I'm not expecting a super detailed answer, but that was my original thought behind the question.
.

Glad you came back Orson...try this for an explanation...and if this isn't enough, reach out to the good folks at Five Star, they will answer your question

https://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/StarSanTech-HB2.pdf

 

[Mase]

Glad you came back Orson...try this for an explanation...and if this isn't enough, reach out to the good folks at Five Star, they will answer your question

https://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/StarSanTech-HB2.pdf

And they are very responsive. I’ve reached out to them once regarding foam and Co2, and a second time about leaving Star-San in the keg during keg storage

 

[thunderwagn]

And they are very responsive. I’ve reached out to them once regarding foam and Co2, and a second time about leaving Star-San in the keg during keg storage

What did they have to say about keg storage?

 

[Mase]

I had read on a forum a debate on leaving Star-San in the keg for storage on whether it was safe or not to the stainless keg. I emailed them (5 Star Chemicals), and their response was that they do not recommend it, with no further explanation, and I never replied back. Since then, I One Step clean, then Star-San (half hour each in a keg washer), then let them air dry with the lids partly on so it can breathe, then Star-San rinse and hold prior to filling.

Edit: My thinking was that if there’s even the slightest flaw in the SS or the SS weld, that the acid wouldn’t be friendly to the metal.

 

[Nosybear]

I had read on a forum a debate on leaving Star-San in the keg for storage on whether it was safe or not to the stainless keg. I emailed them (5 Star Chemicals), and their response was that they do not recommend it, with no further explanation, and I never replied back. Since then, I One Step clean, then Star-San (half hour each in a keg washer), then let them air dry with the lids partly on so it can breathe, then Star-San rinse and hold prior to filling.

Edit: My thinking was that if there’s even the slightest flaw in the SS or the SS weld, that the acid wouldn’t be friendly to the metal.

You use acid to passivate stainless, so it wouldn't hurt there. Worst I can think of is that it contains electrolytes so if there are any dissimilar metals in the keg, it would cause corrosion of the most active metal. Star San sanitizes in two minutes so I'd clean the keg, store it closed, then sanitize a couple of minutes before filling. Limits the risk to essentially zero.

 

[Mark Farrall]

The acid would degrade the seals during longish term storage. Pretty unlikely to be involved, but I'm sure the minute they say it's fine, they'll find out someone has a process that keeps any plastic on or in the keg in contact with the solution.

 

[OAE Iceman]

I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, but I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

All the resources I've read say that Star San is a completely safe, no rinse sanitizer.

I'm trying to convince myself that this noxious, caustic, toxic chemical (that requires poison control center assistance if it contacts your skin) is perfectly edible when dry.

My standard sanitizing procedure is using 90% isopropyl alcohol to wipe surfaces and coat carboy interiors, with boiling water inside the carboys, followed by 12 hours on a heat duct to dry.

Is there any advantage to switch to Star San? Or am I good the way I've been?

Once you start using star san you will love how easy it is to use. Don't fear the foam thats left in your carboy, bottles or keg because it will not affect your beer at all. I have been brewing since the 80's and since I have been using star san and powered brewers wash (pbw) I never looked back on my old cleaning and sanitizing methods. Cheers!

 

[Hawkbox]

I've read that it is only good for 48 hours once mixed. After 48 hours its ability to sanitize declines. If someone else could comment on this that would be very helpful.

I've got a tub of it 2 months old in my garage still going strong.