Predicting OG and FG when using Table Sugar

[THops]

Sugar increases attenuation, so cut back on that. My newbie opinion

I think you are spot on... Just not sure why there does not seem to be consensus on this? I am also not convinced the recipe tool sees sugar as an accelerator, though I could be wrong.

The moderator said the tool predicts 100% fermentability, but he did not mention anything about accelerating properties.... I did include the 1 pound of sugar in the recipe, and it did increase the OG. But I feel like there might be something wonky about how the recipe software predicts the effect of adding simple sugars to the wort. Or (more likely) maybe I am missing something or not using the software correctly.

I feel like we need some cider and mead folks in this thread. Every time I make a cider it ferments down to 1.000. Is there some relationship here that applies to beer?

 

[Hawkbox]

Unless you have an overwhelming amount of sugar in the batch it should still finish out above 1.000.
Apple juice is sugar instead of malt so it will hammer out more.

Wort is not as fermentable as sugar is so that's why it's more normal to finish around 1.010.

I can appreciate you not wanting to "waste" a brew but there is a process of elimination that needs to be done if you want to actually figure it out. If you're fine just hoping it sorts itself out that's entirely cool too.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If one pound of table sugar is "made up" to 1 gallon within distilled water, such that the final overall volume is 1 gallon, the specific gravity is claimed to be 1.04621 (off the top of my head). But the problem here is that if 1 pound of sugar is simply added to 1 gallon of water, you now have something greater than 1 gallon of sugar-water, and thereby something less than 1.04621 SG. I don't know how much less, but a pure guess on my part would be that you would wind up with something on the order of ~1.045 SG. Therefore in 6 gallons the SG increase would be ~1.0075, since 45/6 = 7.5 for 1 Lb. of table sugar added to 6 gallons of water.

Lets now say that you targeted 1.054 SG for the malts before adding the sugar, and then you tossed in 2 Lbs. of sugar, and now you have an estimated SG of:

1 + [54 +2(7.5)]/1000 = ~1.069 SG after the 2 Lbs. of sugar has been added

And now let's say that your yeasts apparent attenuation in malts only based Wort is said to average 77%

69 - 54 = 15

(54 x 77%) + (15 x 100%) = ?%AA x (54 + 15)

56.58 = ?%AA x 69

?%AA = 100(56.58/69) = 82%

Revised Apparent Attenuation = 82%

We would therefore on first guess expect the yeasts apparent attenuation to rise from ~77% to ~82% for this example of adding 2 lbs of sugar to 6 gallons of 1.054 SG Wort.

So we would manual override the 77% attenuation, and replace it with 82% attenuation in BF.

 

[THops]

Unless you have an overwhelming amount of sugar in the batch it should still finish out above 1.000.
Apple juice is sugar instead of malt so it will hammer out more.

Wort is not as fermentable as sugar is so that's why it's more normal to finish around 1.010.

I can appreciate you not wanting to "waste" a brew but there is a process of elimination that needs to be done if you want to actually figure it out. If you're fine just hoping it sorts itself out that's entirely cool too.

I've asked some other brewers and the consensus seems to be that I used a Saison strain that fermented down to 1.000. I had used that yeast (Be-134) before, for higher OG beers. But the combo of the lower OG and the Be-134 is likely what caused the over-attenuation (from my target).

Interestingly, one of the brewers said that the Be-134 probably would have brought my other higher OG beers down to 1.000 over time.

I AM left with some confusion about the predicted attenuation, both from the manufacturer and the recipe calculator here. I used a blend of yeasts, and the calculator predicted 80% attenuation. I think I should have at least used the highest average attenuating yeast for the calculation, which was 90%. That still would not have predicted 100% attenuation, but it would have been closer. (I do understand that it's not really 100%, but that is how the calculator works, etc.)

If it is true that Saison yeasts are diastatic and can ferment down to 1.000, I wonder why the manufacturer's (and the recipe calculator) don't include a range of say, 75% - 100% attenuation.

OR does 90% attenuation include the possibility that the beer could reach 1.000 FG? Knowing that even then there are still some residual sugars?