Not another Chocolate Stout!

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Bigbre04

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https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1437210/chocolate-stout

Hey yall looking for feedback on this recipe.

Shooting for less bitterness. I could add Chocolate extract or flavoring post fermentation, but I just want a balanced stout more then a sweet one. I could also add a touch of vanilla(not enough to really notice it but just enough to help round off the flavor profile).

All feedback is welcome!
 
I will chime in, though my experience making stouts covers all of 5 batches, so take my critique with a grain of salt. My own stouts are not really sweet, but smooth, lacking sharp roast or bitterness. Your recipe looks solid, and you obviously know what you are doing as a professional who provides beer for public consumption.

The first thing that jumps out is the 4 pounds of DextraPils. Is that for body and/or head retention? It seems the substantial amount of flaked oats and the Midnight Wheat malt should help in that regard. In my own stout recipes, I have limited the really dark roasted malts to avoid acrid, burnt flavors, opting instead for the less is more approach, so only 5% Chocolate Malt for me, no Roasted Barley. Instead of Roasted Barley, I use Chocolate Wheat at about the same 5%. You might consider some Munich Type II, just because many beers are good with some Munich Malt.

I like your hops! Voss Kveik is an interesting choice, for which I presume you will be fermenting warm.

That’s all from my perspective.
 
Herm brews said:
I will chime in, though my experience making stouts covers all of 5 batches, so take my critique with a grain of salt. My own stouts are not really sweet, but smooth, lacking sharp roast or bitterness. Your recipe looks solid, and you obviously know what you are doing as a professional who provides beer for public consumption.

The first thing that jumps out is the 4 pounds of DextraPils. Is that for body and/or head retention? It seems the substantial amount of flaked oats and the Midnight Wheat malt should help in that regard. In my own stout recipes, I have limited the really dark roasted malts to avoid acrid, burnt flavors, opting instead for the less is more approach, so only 5% Chocolate Malt for me, no Roasted Barley. Instead of Roasted Barley, I use Chocolate Wheat at about the same 5%. You might consider some Munich Type II, just because many beers are good with some Munich Malt.

I like your hops! Voss Kveik is an interesting choice, for which I presume you will be fermenting warm.

That’s all from my perspective.
Click to expand...
I only have Voss and Nova Lager lol. I have found it to be extremely versatile! Trying Apex this time because it was so cheap, i usually use Lallemand but that shit is close to $200 for 2 pitches.

I added the dextrapils for both additional body but mainly head retention. Dark malts tend to kill head retention right? I dont think that small of a total amount should be overly sweet in the final product.

This is the first time that i have used midnight wheat so im not sure if it impacts head retention???

I avoid Black malt like the plague because it is so acrid and burny flavored, but roasted barley can be kind of nice in LOW amounts. I really added the midnight wheat to darken the overall SRM. I dont have any chocolate wheat(that sounds like something i should have since its probably low bitterness like midnight).

Ill toss some M2 in there. Why not! lol i was actually thinking about that.

I was debating Crystal 120 or Special X. Thoughts?
 
Herm brews said:
I will chime in, though my experience making stouts covers all of 5 batches, so take my critique with a grain of salt. My own stouts are not really sweet, but smooth, lacking sharp roast or bitterness. Your recipe looks solid, and you obviously know what you are doing as a professional who provides beer for public consumption.

The first thing that jumps out is the 4 pounds of DextraPils. Is that for body and/or head retention? It seems the substantial amount of flaked oats and the Midnight Wheat malt should help in that regard. In my own stout recipes, I have limited the really dark roasted malts to avoid acrid, burnt flavors, opting instead for the less is more approach, so only 5% Chocolate Malt for me, no Roasted Barley. Instead of Roasted Barley, I use Chocolate Wheat at about the same 5%. You might consider some Munich Type II, just because many beers are good with some Munich Malt.

I like your hops! Voss Kveik is an interesting choice, for which I presume you will be fermenting warm.

That’s all from my perspective.
Click to expand...
Updated the recipe

Subbed out the dextrapils for M2 and reduced the Roasted Barley to 1 pound and upped the midnight wheat to 4 pounds to Darken it further.

Just because i do this for a job doesnt mean that i am good at building recipes! Im still learning!

Lemme know!
 
I make Stouts all the time and I don't get the hate for Roasted Barley. In my house Stout I use it at 11% and I believe it lends a wonderful roast flavor. I do not find it acrid or sharp or ashy or burnt or whatever. Maybe this is just semantics, but I can't imagine a Stout without Roasted Barley.

That said, if I were making a Chocolate Stout, I would certainly cut back on the RB in favor of malts that would lend more chocolate and less roast. That usually starts with a Pale Chocolate, and I would build from there.

Good luck!
 
Megary said:
I make Stouts all the time and I don't get the hate for Roasted Barley. In my house Stout I use it at 11% and I believe it lends a wonderful roast flavor. I do not find it acrid or sharp or ashy or burnt or whatever. Maybe this is just semantics, but I can't imagine a Stout without Roasted Barley.

That said, if I were making a Chocolate Stout, I would certainly cut back on the RB in favor of malts that would lend more chocolate and less roast. That usually starts with a Pale Chocolate, and I would build from there.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Hate hate hate!

Naw I am not a huge fan of the burnt flavor in stouts, i know that it has its place, but to me its not my first choice. I tend to try to keep most of my burnt flavored hops towards the 1-2% range. I even get some acrid burning flavor off of too much chocolate malt lol. Maybe im just sensitive to it??

I dont have Pale chocolate, just Bestmalz chocolate malt ~330L?

Maybe ill add back a pound of RB?
 
Looks like a good beer to me, I have 3.2% RB in my coffee porter, and use Cascade as well.
I think the Columbus will play well in it, not sure what to think of the Loral LupulN2.
You will want to either ferment the VOSS high, like really high (100F), or be prepared to let it condition for a while.
I used VOSS at 85F in my coffee Porter a while ago, it did not work at all, I thought I made a huge mistake. A month later the odd tangy orange flavor that didn't work went away.
 
Capping the mash baby.

I loved midnight wheat I had no harshness with RB but that can come down to water chemistry really Being too low in PH in the beer from the roasted malts I found keeping some bicarbonates in there rounded out the mouthfeel for me keeping the acrid sharp bitterness at bay.

Maybe prop up the Calcium Chloride too for a more malty rounded finish.

Lots of interesting information here now that will bring you more ?lol
 
I am glad that more seasoned stout brewers are putting in their 2 cents. A diversity of opinion and taste can only help our cause here.
I limit roasted barley because I do not want that burnt coffee flavor, and sought alternatives that would deliver the color in a better, smoother (for me) flavor package. The roasted wheat malts seem to meet that criteria. Another of my objectives is to achieve good beer with fewer ingredients, to do more with less.
A guy who serves beer for a living, with whom I shared a bottle of my Smooth Stout, just complimented me highly. He said it was classic American Stout - except for the unlabeled bottle, it didn’t present as typical homebrew.
 
Trialben said:
Capping the mash baby.

I loved midnight wheat I had no harshness with RB but that can come down to water chemistry really Being too low in PH in the beer from the roasted malts I found keeping some bicarbonates in there rounded out the mouthfeel for me keeping the acrid sharp bitterness at bay.

Maybe prop up the Calcium Chloride too for a more malty rounded finish.

Lots of interesting information here now that will bring you more ?lol
Click to expand...
Great point regarding water chemistry! I usually mash my Stout between 5.5 and 5.6. I also use a big portion of Flaked Barley (19%) which helps smooth out the body.

I love all of the opinions here and I’m thinking there are more ways than one to skin this cat. Believe me, when I taste a Stout I don’t want to imagine that I’m licking an ashtray. But I also want some roast or otherwise I’d call it a Porter. Again, probably just semantics.
 
So many variables, and so many variations of the style! It all comes down to personal taste, and figuring out what you need to do to satisfy "your" particular taste. One other thing I would point to is ABV. When you are going for a lower ABV version it becomes trickier to get whatever balance of flavors you are going for. I think this may true of many if not most styles of beer.
 
I have 11% dark malts in my stout using chocolate, roasted barley and black.
I have over 15% flaked products.
I don't have any issues with head retention and it drinks well without being harsh.
I think changing from a pils malt to something richer would benefit your recipe greatly. Maris Otter or a pale ale malt would work nice.
Also, on my stout, I don't use any acid in the mash and only acidify my sparge water to 5.4.
Lastly, Voss? Not a fan.
Based on your recipe, id use Apex London for a softer mouthfeel.
Good luck,
Brian
 
Mine is just about 11% of chocolate and black malt, with black making up 4% of that.

Just my opinion, but citrus or pine don't go well stouts, so not a fan of the hops you have chosen. Same for the yeast, fruity off flavors seems bad for a stout.

I almost always use 1098 for stouts and EKG or fuggles for hops
 

Ozarks Mountain Brew said:
I've found if you add roasted barley late in the mash say just before mashout and ground it up into a dust it does give the roasted flavor with no harshness
Click to expand...
I have never heard of doing that. Its not really possible with my equipement, but its certainly an interesting concept. almost like adding powdered malt extract but just roasted barley powder lol.
 
Sounds like a dry American Stout with FG at 1.012, the Pils and the Cascade Hops.
I am far from a professional, but I like mine more on the Englishy side. I know you are stuck on that yeast because of your system, but I bet it would be really nice if you had a chance and the fermenter space to use more of a traditional English yeast with that one.
 
Trialben said:
Capping the mash baby.

I loved midnight wheat I had no harshness with RB but that can come down to water chemistry really Being too low in PH in the beer from the roasted malts I found keeping some bicarbonates in there rounded out the mouthfeel for me keeping the acrid sharp bitterness at bay.

Maybe prop up the Calcium Chloride too for a more malty rounded finish.

Lots of interesting information here now that will bring you more ?lol
Click to expand...
always man. always.
 
Herm brews said:
I am glad that more seasoned stout brewers are putting in their 2 cents. A diversity of opinion and taste can only help our cause here.
I limit roasted barley because I do not want that burnt coffee flavor, and sought alternatives that would deliver the color in a better, smoother (for me) flavor package. The roasted wheat malts seem to meet that criteria. Another of my objectives is to achieve good beer with fewer ingredients, to do more with less.
A guy who serves beer for a living, with whom I shared a bottle of my Smooth Stout, just complimented me highly. He said it was classic American Stout - except for the unlabeled bottle, it didn’t present as typical homebrew.
Click to expand...
Honestly thats big praise. I have been handed a lot of bad homebrew from local friends, sometimes its hard to drink. Some people also are very sensitive. but that is a thing i guess?
 
Megary said:
Great point regarding water chemistry! I usually mash my Stout between 5.5 and 5.6. I also use a big portion of Flaked Barley (19%) which helps smooth out the body.

I love all of the opinions here and I’m thinking there are more ways than one to skin this cat. Believe me, when I taste a Stout I don’t want to imagine that I’m licking an ashtray. But I also want some roast or otherwise I’d call it a Porter. Again, probably just semantics.
Click to expand...
i love me some ashtray lol.

I really lack experience with water chemistry, I learned it many beers ago, but times have changed so much since school that i havent kept up with it. Further reading is very much needed on my front. I also need to work on getting into more podcasts for my long commute instead of angry music lol.

My previous brewery, we rarely deviated from the standard salts for most of our beers. They turned out well, but i wonder now if we could have made them better.
 
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