Jump from homebrew to a brewery

[Mastoras007]

It's not brew in a bag,
Its all in one with basket inside
Mashing, lift the basket, sparge, boil , wilrpool
Of course the unitank and bbt is separate tanks.
With pump for recirculation etc
This system costs less but not sure about efficiency yet, sure thing is not same as 3 vessel system but it's on my budget for start the business.
Hope everything goes good to upgrade later
I don't care to lose some efficiency first 20-30 butchers
I care to get a good beer and go in to the local market

 

[Mastoras007]

I will not go for the fast lager, I will start with a blonde ale

 

[Donoroto]

It's not brew in a bag,
Its all in one with basket inside
Mashing, lift the basket, sparge, boil , wilrpool
Of course the unitank and bbt is separate tanks.
With pump for recirculation etc
This system costs less but not sure about efficiency yet, sure thing is not same as 3 vessel system but it's on my budget for start the business.
Hope everything goes good to upgrade later
I don't care to lose some efficiency first 20-30 butchers
I care to get a good beer and go in to the local market

Brew in a bag or brew in a basket. Same basic process, only difference is the size of the holes.

That does not diminish the process or effort. But recognize, they are nearly the same process. Both make good beer.

 

[Brew Cat]

It's not brew in a bag,
Its all in one with basket inside
Mashing, lift the basket, sparge, boil , wilrpool
Of course the unitank and bbt is separate tanks.
With pump for recirculation etc
This system costs less but not sure about efficiency yet, sure thing is not same as 3 vessel system but it's on my budget for start the business.
Hope everything goes good to upgrade later
I don't care to lose some efficiency first 20-30 butchers
I care to get a good beer and go in to the local market

Brew in a basket is the same thing as brew in a bag. I can do a 15 gallon biab but never got the same efficiency as the same recipe done as a 5 gallon. But maybe with a constant circulating paddle it would bump up efficiency. My biggest question is expandability And turnover . What's the most you can do in that? I'm guessing 15 gallons or 2 or 3 kegs.

 

[Mastoras007]

Brew in a basket is the same thing as brew in a bag. I can do a 15 gallon biab but never got the same efficiency as the same recipe done as a 5 gallon. But maybe with a constant circulating paddle it would bump up efficiency. My biggest question is expandability And turnover . What's the most you can do in that? I'm guessing 15 gallons or 2 or 3 kegs.

500 liters batch,its about 140 galons in total is more, can give me a batch of 500 liters.
i'm planing to double batch each brew day because my unitanks are 1000 liters (about 270 galons)

 

[Mastoras007]

Brew in a bag or brew in a basket. Same basic process, only difference is the size of the holes.

That does not diminish the process or effort. But recognize, they are nearly the same process. Both make good beer.

youre right, I thought that is big diffrend basket with bag, but anyway, yes will be a biab method with recirculating

 

[Bigbre04]

so that is the larger version of the system that i have. I have the 200L but i squeak 2 bbls of beer out of each batch.

i would personally not use this system. while i do get good efficiency(80-87%), i dont think that this is the best option for the money. it is slow and for bigger beers it takes a long time to brew. there is also a hard cap on the total weight of grain that you can add to each tube which limits your OGs pretty heavily. the logistics of that big of a basket are also kinda sketchy to me.

I would strongly recommend that you look at some chinese made 2 vessel systems you can get them in a similar footprint as that system for a similar price.



after about 5bbls(brewhouse size) i would really be pressed todo all of the work by myself. 3bbls is do able but bigger and you are gonna start to need employees or you will burn out. for reference. you will need 1 day of keg washing, 1-2 days of brewing, 1 day of packaging, 1-2 days of sales/moving kegs around, and then there is inventory and all of the other moving parts that are involved. just be prepared to find, train, and pay atleast one other capable person for a few days a week.



you will need to start out with about 100' of 1.5" or your equal hose with the fittings to make it all work. hose lengths wise you need to comfortably reach your farthest fermenter with one continuous hose from your outlet on your heat exchanger. after that cut one about half the length of the longest reach and then 2 shorter hoses.

Drain hoses i would use a cheaper 1.5" braided vinyl hose. Blow off hoses can be 1 inch braided vinyl. the blow offs will need to be able to be built into your cip circuit. i use shorter blow offs and hang smaller buckets off the blow off arms to keep the floors clear so that i can clean under them.

CALIBRATE YOUR PRVRs!!! Do not assume they are setup properly from the factory. mine are set to blow at 20-22psi. i carb my tanks at 15 psi and they sit at that pressure. BUT if you lose glycol and the tank is under pressure and carbed it can easily push past that 20-22psi range if it got hot.

fermenters wise, i would strongly recommend you get 10hl unis with a racking arm and learn about spunding. I would consider getting 4 unis and 1-2 bbts in the same size. unis can be used as bbts, but they are not as good as a bbt.

generally it is recommended to have hot and cold liquor tanks that are double the total volume of your brewhouse. so 10HL. if you could get 15HL that would be better as it would allow you to brew twice in one day(with 2 shifts).

you are going to need a cooler big enough to store atleast 2 full batches in kegs plus the hops yeast etc.

you want to keep your grain off the floor. big racks and shelves are good for that.

you will need a pallet jack or a forklift(preferred).

I am not sure how big your standard kegs are, but you will be looking at roughly 16 american 1/2s per tank. I dont know how many kegs you have ordered, but i would assume that you would want to start out with close to 60 big kegs minimum. this really depends on how many tanks you are getting. you need to have the kegs on hand to keep the process moving while your kegs sit in the market. in the states, i would not expect to get a keg back for up to 90 days so you need the total keg count high enough that you are not bottle necked when your kegs are in the market.

spent grain on that scale is also something of a challenge. you will need to get setup with a farmer to come pick up every week. large amounts of grain sitting in the summer sun is a special smell your neighbors may not enjoy.

A lot to unpack here. glad you used epoxy on the floor.

not trying to be alarmist or negative. you can do this, but it is a ton of work.

 

[Brew Cat]

500 litre MT/kettle will not give you 500 litre of beer. 250 - 300 litre maybe.

 

[Bigbre04]

500 litre MT/kettle will not give you 500 litre of beer. 250 - 300 litre maybe.

that brew house will def give you 500L of beer if you scale your recipe properly. they rate them by thier output not total volume. I use a 200L version of the same brewhouse, putting out 2bbls of *finished* beer...i could probably push a little more out but i couldn't double that volume

 

[Brew Cat]

that brew house will def give you 500L of beer if you scale your recipe properly. they rate them by thier output not total volume. I use a 200L version of the same brewhouse, putting out 2bbls of *finished* beer...i could probably push a little more out but i couldn't double that volume

Well I did the math and 200L is only 52 gallons so do you top up to get 2 bbl which is 60+ gallons

 

[Bigbre04]

Well I did the math and 200L is only 52 gallons so do you top up to get 2 bbl which is 60+ gallons

my kettle full volume is 80 gals. they are german systems and are very conservative on the volumes. i expect to knock out about 76 gals after boil. i consistently pack 4 full 1/2 and have a few liters for the kitchen to cook with remaining.

 

[Brew Cat]

my kettle full volume is 80 gals. they are german systems and are very conservative on the volumes. i expect to knock out about 76 gals after boil. i consistently pack 4 full 1/2 and have a few liters for the kitchen to cook with remaining.

Well here is my question to you. If you had the money to start over would you get that system again. Or something else

 

[Mastoras007]

I would strongly recommend that you look at some chinese made 2 vessel systems you can get them in a similar footprint as that system for a similar price

I will pay it just 3,7K + vat, also is very eazy to keep it and buy just a second vessel as mash tank and use this for boil, plan is start with this and buy the mash later.

I am not sure how big your standard kegs are, but you will be looking at roughly 16 american 1/2s per tank. I dont know how many kegs you have ordered, but i would assume that you would want to start out with close to 60 big kegs minimum. this really depends on how many tanks you are getting. you need to have the kegs on hand to keep the process moving while your kegs sit in the market. in the states, i would not expect to get a keg back for up to 90 days so you need the total keg count high enough that you are not bottle necked when your kegs are in the market.

i will older used kegs, 20 liters each 1 palete for start, i thing is sbout 50-60 pieces

500 litre MT/kettle will not give you 500 litre of beer. 250 - 300 litre maybe.

is more than 500, it can give 500 liters wort, i thing is close to 700 not have the specs now

 

[Mastoras007]

not trying to be alarmist or negative. you can do this, but it is a ton of work.

theank you!!!!!!

 

[Bigbre04]

I will pay it just 3,7K + vat, also is very eazy to keep it and buy just a second vessel as mash tank and use this for boil, plan is start with this and buy the mash later.

You are able to get that brewhouse for 37000 euros? Thats pretty cheap. I was looking at 3.5bbl 2 vessel setups that were running north of $50k before taxes and delivery.

i will older used kegs, 20 liters each 1 palete for start, i thing is sbout 50-60 pieces

Used kegs are fine. Buy some extra spears(probably 5 or 10 and the tools to get them in and out) you will need them.

A 20 liter keg is similar in size to a sixtle or a slim 5.17gal keg. Those are generally 20kegs per pallet. Probably empty they would ship them 3 stacked so probably 60 per pallet.

If i was you, I would plan on ordering atleast one more pallet fairly quickly.

But you should base that off your expected sales.

Well here is my question to you. If you had the money to start over would you get that system again. Or something else

I would not buy this brewhoise again. I dislike it greatly. I would order a 2 or 3 vessel more standard pilot brewhouse.

 

[Mastoras007]

You are able to get that brewhouse for 37000 euros? Thats pretty cheap. I was looking at 3.5bbl 2 vessel setups that were running north of $50k before taxes and delivery.

yep 3700€ (not 37.000€) not the same as photo, but a stainles steel company will build me a same like this

Used kegs are fine. Buy some extra spears(probably 5 or 10 and the tools to get them in and out) you will need them.

good to know! haven't thought that, price is more or less 45€ each + shiping etc will be close to 50-60 each

I would not buy this brewhoise again. I dislike it greatly. I would order a 2 or 3 vessel more standard pilot brewhouse.

but you mention that you get more than 80% eficiency i will be happy if i get 75%

 

[Bigbre04]

yep 3700€ (not 37.000€) not the same as photo, but a stainles steel company will build me a same like this

Oh. well i hope they understand how to run sanitary welds. Be sure they are using 304 or 316 stainless. everything needs to be ground clean and smooth. You are buying the fermenters right? I wouldnt get those fabricated locally. there is alot that goes into a fermenter and it will ruin beer very quickly if it cant be cleaned. temp control and pressure tolerance is also very important.

pumps and shit all need to be 304 ss and food/temp grade.

i would consider going smaller and getting your flow and process down and then getting into a bigger setup. my costs for 2bbls of beer are between $100 and $400 per batch of 4 kegs. you will gain higher cost efficiency with bigger batches but the costs of ingredients are also much higher per batch if something goes wrong.

good to know! haven't thought that, price is more or less 45€ each + shiping etc will be close to 50-60 each

thats roughly what i would expect.

but you mention that you get more than 80% eficiency i will be happy if i get 75%

i have been getting 87% fairly consistently at this point.

 

[Brew Cat]

Hello everyone.
I thing i'm reeady to jump in, next months runing a goverment funding for startups.
The idea is to greate a super small brewery manage everything from 1 person (me)
Low cost low production of 500 liters batches brewing 4-5 times per month selling max 100 kegs per month (1st target)
2 fermentors 1 bbt, 50 kegs
Do you think will be manageable?

What type of brewing experience do you have?

 

[Mastoras007]

Oh. well i hope they understand how to run sanitary welds. Be sure they are using 304 or 316 stainless. everything needs to be ground clean and smooth. You are buying the fermenters right? I wouldnt get those fabricated locally. there is alot that goes into a fermenter and it will ruin beer very quickly if it cant be cleaned. temp control and pressure tolerance is also very important.

Yes, they are producing unitanks, they work food grade for breweries and cheese factory
Tanks are coming from China 40-50 days will be here

 

[Bigbre04]

Yes, they are producing unitanks, they work food grade for breweries and cheese factory
Tanks are coming from China 40-50 days will be here

oh ok thats cool then. i though they were just a fabrication shop that was gonna build for you.