Improve dry hopping

[Craigerrr]

I would split that 200 grams into two dry additions. Maybe make one additio near the end of fermentation, and the other when it is time to cold crash. If I am adding hops after fermentation I usually have a trickle of co2 flowing into the fermenter, and let it go for a little bit after. I have never had an oxidized batch yet.

 

[Josh Hughes]

Yup and the bittering can become harsh from oxidised iso alpha acids.

Something about crystal malts being more prone to the oxidation is the key with them malts.

I suppose this bodes well with the increasing trend to sub out caramel malts in favour for Munich and Vienna.

I'd say in brown ale English bitters and milds the use of caramel malts oxidising into prune raisin flavours may actually suit the style even .

I think so. I imagine those of us that love those beers had some slight oxidation in the import bottles, possibly.

 

[Minbari]

It's a new revelation to me too BarbarianBrewer.

Actually that Paddy fella from the beery interesting podcast talked about it which spiked my interest.

Where I learned about it too

 

[Craigerrr]

Maybe throw another 200 grams in as a whirlpool addition at about 80C. I am personally not timid with hops! I don't always throw a pound of hops into a batch of beer, but I have and will again! FYI, NEIPA technically should not get any boil hops, when I brew NEIPA, I will boil for 30 minutes. If you use an immersion chiller, throw it in before coming to a boil. No sense boiling for 15, then adding the chiller and waiting for the boil to come back.

 

[Zambi]

Lots of interesting info here!
Just a question, looking at the amount of grains used, is that a 30 litre batch?
Or just a high abv batch?
Both may have an influence on the hoppiness (says a not so sure non hop head )

 

[Craigerrr]

One other thing, NO CRYSTAL MALTS in NEIPA!

 

[rdharles]

My IPAs didn't improve until I started soft crashing to about 58ºF for about 36 hours and then dry hopping. I make mostly Hazy IPAs but I don't add any hops until after the soft crash (after fermentation is complete) or I get the dreaded hop burn/bite. I only leave the hops in at most for 1-2 days (following a read of the Janish book). This technique had definitely improved flavor and aroma. My flavor and aroma sucked before I started doing this.
Cheers!

 

[Craigerrr]

My IPAs didn't improve until I started soft crashing to about 58ºF for about 36 hours and then dry hopping. I make mostly Hazy IPAs but I don't add any hops until after the soft crash (after fermentation is complete) or I get the dreaded hop burn/bite. I only leave the hops in at most for 1-2 days (following a read of the Janish book). This technique had definitely improved flavor and aroma. My flavor and aroma sucked before I started doing this.
Cheers!

Thanks, I am always looking for was to improve, I will have to try this!

 

[NorthCoastBrewer]

omething about crystal malts being more prone to the oxidation is the key with them malts.

I suppose this bodes well with the increasing trend to sub out caramel malts in favour for Munich and Vienna.

I'd say in brown ale English bitters and milds the use of caramel malts oxidising into prune raisin flavours may actually suit the style even .

Vinnie Cilurzo (Russian River Brewing) and Scott Janish (Sapwood Cellers) are two pro brewers who have shared a lot of good information on oxidation through the entire brewing process.

CB&B Magazine (Winter 2023) contains a couple of articles on modern American Pale Ales and American Amber Ales. Pro brewers, working with maltsters, appear to be finding ways to get the desired flavors from crystal malts with new products and techniques

 

[GFHomebrew]

Vinnie Cilurzo (Russian River Brewing) and Scott Janish (Sapwood Cellers) are two pro brewers who have shared a lot of good information on oxidation through the entire brewing process.

CB&B Magazine (Winter 2023) contains a couple of articles on modern American Pale Ales and American Amber Ales. Pro brewers, working with maltsters, appear to be finding ways to get the desired flavors from crystal malts with new products and techniques

I'd hazard to guess something along the LODO mashing/brewing technique of mashing under a nitrogen blanket using de-oxygenated brew liquor underletting using a slow boil and employing brewtan B - K meta and Ascorbic acid at packaging ect ect to mitigate oxidation of these Carmel malt compounds...

 

[Craigerrr]

I should clarify my thoughts on Crystal Malts. I definitely use Crystal in a West Coast IPA from a flavor slash malt backbone standpoint. I use a lot less hops in Westie, aroma is important, but it is not the star of the show. I am having a difficult time believing that the use of C malts can cause, or contribute to oxidization. I have used them plenty and have never had an issue with oxidization to date.

 

[NorthCoastBrewer]

I'd hazard to guess something along [..]

You mentioned LODO, probably in jest, but I need to quietly dis-engage anyway.

I am having a difficult time believing that the use of C malts can cause, or contribute to oxidization.

The idea comes from a couple of regional/national craft brewers.

Their concerns (e.g. packaging 2020s NEIPAs and IPAs in bottles or cans so that has a six month shelf live) are not always our concerns.

CB&B Magazine (Winter 2023) contains a couple of articles on modern American Pale Ales and American Amber Ales. Pro brewers, working with maltsters, appear to be finding ways to get the desired flavors from crystal malts with new products and techniques

To re-iterate a point: there's something interesting, with regard to cystal malts, in the CB&B Magazine articles. In the mean time, typical recipes for NEIPAs and 2020s WC IPAs don't use (or need) crystal malt.

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

My idea for this beer was to do some sor tof smash to learn exactly how citra tastes. That's why I've used citra for bittering too.

I'm a big fan of SMaSH brews, especially for dialing in a system, and for learning hops. They serve as easy 'maintenance beers' to keep me hydrated during dry spells between my more fancy recipes.

I've found the following SMaSH brewing process is the ticket:

1. Aim for a 4% beer. (that's 8# base malt/5gal for me) This will avoid overpowering the hops.
2. 2-row is okay, but Pale Ale, Golden Promise or Ashburn Mild are better. Their sweetness is enough to enhance the fruitiness of hops without using crystal malts. 100% Wheat or Rye works well too, but you better BIAB in that case.
3. Skip all boil additions. (and do 30 minute short boils at that) You will get plenty of IBUs and balance despite what the calculators say. (You can likely even get away with a 30 minute Mash if you are very efficient)
4. Chill to 165℉ and stop. Whirlpool 2oz/5gal of a single hop in a bag for 20 minutes or until your beer naturally gets down to 145℉. Most high-alpha flavorful & aromatic hops should *not* touch heat. That's just a waste of volatile goodness.
5. Pull the hops and squeeze the bag lightly, but don't toss it. (what a waste!) Finish chilling to desired fermentation temp.
6. Put the hop bag in the fermenter and rack on top. Even better, if you keep a cycle going, you can reserve the yeast cake from the last SMaSH and rack on it too. (so a 'clean' yeast like Chico or San Diego Super work well here) A good habit is to keg the last one on the day you are brewing the next. Alternatively, put the hop bag in a sanitzed ziplock and reserve it for a Post Fermentation Dry Hop.
7. Only pull the hops after crashing and racking before knocking out your next batch to the cake. (avoiding a potential oxygen ingress opportunity)

This will get you the maximum goodness from the hops. From there, you can adjust hop/volume ratio, hop/grain-ABV ratio, and play with Active vs. Post Fermentation Dry Hop.

Note, it is entirely acceptable to skip that whirlpool step and just dry hop at any point you like. The beer *will not suffer* for it. You'll have a nice sessionable crushable brew and the only real flavor and aroma will be from the hops. The malt will be there to enhance them and to avoid being hop water.

I've found that just like the advice to simplify grain bills, the same needs to be stressed for hop bills. I see way too many kitchen sink approaches here, and many of them from craft brewers, though that is starting to change. Until you learn what a hop smells and tastes like in a clean beer all by itself, don't pair it with anything. But once you do, now you have a new 'color in your palette' for your next masterpiece.