IBU's

[Chip99]

So I like a bit more bite to my IPA's. What is the proper way to up the IBU without ruining the composition of an all grain kit? I have ordered and have in the fridge some additional hops. I have 8 oz of Mozaic and 8 oz of Centennial. I understand there are differences in both the volume of hops and WHEN you add it during the boil.

Similarly, I would like to increase the ABV slightly (half to one percent) on the all grain kits without ruining the kit composition. I do have ten pounds extra of two row malt and corn sugar but have not tried adding these so far for fear of ruining a batch (and not knowing how much to add to a batch without ruining it). I cook in five gallon batches. Any and all info appreciated... Chip

 

[Zambi]

The easiest way to up the abv is to use less water. So instead of making 5 gallon, you make 4. Or 4.5. Whatever.
And if you use all the hops that came with your kit, you will have increased IBU's at the same time

 

[Semper Sitientum]

You could add 8ozs. corn sugar to the end of the boil, around 15 mins., which will give you an approximate 0.50 bump in ABV for a 5 gallon batch without having any impact on flavor or body.

 

[Chip99]

The easiest way to up the abv is to use less water. So instead of making 5 gallon, you make 4. Or 4.5. Whatever.
And if you use all the hops that came with your kit, you will have increased IBU's at the same time

Thanks. Makes sense. Like a comment on another thread saying brew to SG and not to volume... Chip

 

[Sandy Feet]

If you do it with corn sugar, you dry out the beer. If you are going to add alcohol, I would do it with the base malt.
Adding hops at 60 is more for bittering. 30-60 minute additions will be for bittering. 30 will give you less IBUs, 60 more. Adding them at 10 or after is for aroma. The software should calculate IBUs for you.

 

[Dave Y]

A strong, high AA bittering hop is probably the single biggest impact on the character you’re chasing. I like cascade hops, for example ( mainly because that’s what grows here, and I’m hoping one day I have enough for a batch of beer ). Cascade AA pale in comparison to to the average CTZ, Chinook, Centennial, Citra, Mosaic, etc. My last batch of Cascades were 5.7 AA, where I just got some galaxy at 14.4 AA.

If you plug some of these into the recipe builder, you’ll see just how much more quickly the high AA hops scale towards total IBUs in a recipe. I’ve done a few IPAs, and full disclosure, as a style they are outside my wheelhouse, but changing from a medium AA 60 minute hop to a high AA 60 minute hop completely changed the final product. As an example, here is one that was good, drinkable ... but BITTER

I’d worked up to this hop payload not changing the mash bill. The full ounce of Citra for 60 minutes was a little out of balance for my tastes and in subsequent efforts I reduced this to a half ounce for 60, giving me more room on the flavoring hops and it came out much more balanced, and obviously not as bitter.

By the same token, if I loaded up this mash bill with Cascade, h107 to achieve the same 67 IBUs, it wouldn’t be bitter enough. I know, I’ve tried.

 

[Josh Hughes]

Thanks. Makes sense. Like a comment on another thread saying brew to SG and not to volume... Chip

Best method to get the taste the recipe is shooting for

 

[Chip99]

If you do it with corn sugar, you dry out the beer. If you are going to add alcohol, I would do it with the base malt.
Adding hops at 60 is more for bittering. 30-60 minute additions will be for bittering. 30 will give you less IBUs, 60 more. Adding them at 10 or after is for aroma. The software should calculate IBUs for you.

Thanks for the reply. Two additional questions. 1) When you say "dry the beer" what does that mean in terms of taste? I like drier wines especially with whites, my wife sweeter. Is this the same? 2) Base malts you are talking about upping the quantity of the grain bill? I bought ten pounds of two row malt for this purpose but haven't tried it yet. How many pounds should I add to a recipe that already has a 10 pound grain bill used in a 5 gallon kit? Thanks again... Chip

 

[Sandy Feet]

Use the software to adjust the grain to the alcohol level you want. "Dry" lacks mouthfeel. A Saison is good dry. A Brut IPA is good dry. Other styles, not so much. If you want more alcohol, yes, up the quantity of the grain bill. That is what software is for. You can balance it to your taste anyway you want.
A dry beer equates to a lower FG. For example, I made a French Saison that finished at 1.000. Massively, stupid dry. For that style it works. Would you want a Porter to finish there? Hell, no.
A West Coast IPA with a Chico yeast mashing reasonable low would finish probably around 1.010 or 011, somewhat dry. Using adjuncts and mashing higher with a different yeast might be closer to 1.015 and leave you a little bit sweeter, more mouthfeel, and less dry which is better for a New England.

 

[Chip99]

Use the software to adjust the grain to the alcohol level you want. "Dry" lacks mouthfeel. A Saison is good dry. A Brut IPA is good dry. Other styles, not so much. If you want more alcohol, yes, up the quantity of the grain bill. That is what software is for. You can balance it to your taste anyway you want.
A dry beer equates to a lower FG. For example, I made a French Saison that finished at 1.000. Massively, stupid dry. For that style it works. Would you want a Porter to finish there? Hell, no.
A West Coast IPA with a Chico yeast mashing reasonable low would finish probably around 1.010 or 011, somewhat dry. Using adjuncts and mashing higher with a different yeast might be closer to 1.015 and leave you a little bit sweeter, more mouthfeel, and less dry which is better for a New England.

I do primarily IPA's. Most of my FG's are 1.011 or very close. Some high ABV beers I've had (8-10%) I've noted the "sweetness" or a syrupy like "mouthfeel". IDK if I am using these terms properly or not. I have not been unsatisfied with IPA's I've done (like a whole 3 batches! LOL) that all had FG's right at 1.011. Unfortunately I did not take the gravity prior to fermentation so I am only guessing what the ABV of my brews actually are. I'll start doing that after chilling the wort from here on out. Not smart enough to know what a French Saison or a Brut IPA is, do know Porter and I like them. Still learning even though I've been a beer drinker for 45 years!! Thank you for the input... Chip

 

[Sandy Feet]

I do not overcomplicate anything. Take a gravity reading as you are putting the beer into the fermenter and one when you are packaging (One OG, One FG). If I get something I really like, I will take it up to the breweries and see what they think. The breweries here are my social outlet (especially since my wife passed), so I get to BS with the brewers because I have developed a relationship from frequenting them and becoming a regular...And also because I am a huge beer geek for many styles. I love the lager I just made, and I took it up to two places this weekend. Both of the brewers liked it too.
If you start liking what you are doing, package that bad boy and see what others think, either in a club or by frequenting breweries.
I am not the most experienced dude making beer. I don't get to brew nearly as much as I would like, but I do like what I make. Thanks to forums like this, online resources, and just bullshitting with brewers, I have started to figure some thing out. That is what is fun about this hobby.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Also, there will always be learning. After listening to others, drinking stuff at the breweries, and playing online, I found things tat I have never heard of at one time. I still want to find time to do Sunfire's Alt beer in addition to a bunch of other shit. I found that I love Alt beers and ESBs. The Saison is something I found at a couple of breweries that isn't all that popular anymore, but if clean and done well, it is a style I absolutely love. I love brewing them too (especially the French yeast).

 

[Chip99]

Also, there will always be learning. After listening to others, drinking stuff at the breweries, and playing online, I found things tat I have never heard of at one time. I still want to find time to do Sunfire's Alt beer in addition to a bunch of other shit. I found that I love Alt beers and ESBs. The Saison is something I found at a couple of breweries that isn't all that popular anymore, but if clean and done well, it is a style I absolutely love. I love brewing them too (especially the French yeast).

Yeah you're way out of my league. I do have a friend that owns a brew pub here in south Texas and he is willing to give me tips. But he does mostly pale ale, porters, blondes, bocks, hefe weizen, etc... Nothing like you are talking about. I'm more interested in IPA and some German beers as I lived there for three years and visited several times since. Anyway thanks again for the responses... Chip

 

[Donoroto]

“Dry” beer is less sweet and can lack malt character. Some beers are supposed to be dry, most are not.

Higher Alpha Acid (AA) hops bitter more than low AA. The longer the boil, the more bitter (to a point) and less aroma. The later you add the hops to the boil, the less bittering and more aroma you get.

Boiling hops for an hour is about the max you can get for bittering. Some say it is as short as a half hour.

Nobody mentioned adding malt extract to increase the OG. Liquid or dry malt extract is inexpensive, a pound adds a lot of fermentable sugars. These get added during the boil, often close to the end.

Is your grain crushed? If so, go ahead and add 10% more yo the kit by weight, that should up the ABV around 10%. If it is not crushed, you won’t get much out of it, sorry.

 

[Chip99]

A strong, high AA bittering hop is probably the single biggest impact on the character you’re chasing. I like cascade hops, for example ( mainly because that’s what grows here, and I’m hoping one day I have enough for a batch of beer ). Cascade AA pale in comparison to to the average CTZ, Chinook, Centennial, Citra, Mosaic, etc. My last batch of Cascades were 5.7 AA, where I just got some galaxy at 14.4 AA.

If you plug some of these into the recipe builder, you’ll see just how much more quickly the high AA hops scale towards total IBUs in a recipe. I’ve done a few IPAs, and full disclosure, as a style they are outside my wheelhouse, but changing from a medium AA 60 minute hop to a high AA 60 minute hop completely changed the final product. As an example, here is one that was good, drinkable ... but BITTER

View attachment 31344

I’d worked up to this hop payload not changing the mash bill. The full ounce of Citra for 60 minutes was a little out of balance for my tastes and in subsequent efforts I reduced this to a half ounce for 60, giving me more room on the flavoring hops and it came out much more balanced, and obviously not as bitter.

By the same token, if I loaded up this mash bill with Cascade, h107 to achieve the same 67 IBUs, it wouldn’t be bitter enough. I know, I’ve tried.

Wow! I'm an engineer and computer geek but I'm going to have to study up on these calculators. Thanks for the info. I'm going to play with the calculators and see what they spit out. Been working on the KISS principle thus far... Chip

 

[Chip99]

“Dry” beer is less sweet and can lack malt character. Some beers are supposed to be dry, most are not.

Higher Alpha Acid (AA) hops bitter more than low AA. The longer the boil, the more bitter (to a point) and less aroma. The later you add the hops to the boil, the less bittering and more aroma you get.

Boiling hops for an hour is about the max you can get for bittering. Some say it is as short as a half hour.

Nobody mentioned adding malt extract to increase the OG. Liquid or dry malt extract is inexpensive, a pound adds a lot of fermentable sugars. These get added during the boil, often close to the end.

Is your grain crushed? If so, go ahead and add 10% more yo the kit by weight, that should up the ABV around 10%. If it is not crushed, you won’t get much out of it, sorry.

Thanks. My grains are crushed. I don't have a mill and honestly don't want to bother unless it is a huge difference in performance. I brew 5 gallons about every two or three weeks. So I don't know how much benefit I get from buying in quantity. Right now I'm producing IPA's at about one dollar per bottle. Dry malt sounds like an easy cheap addition to up fermentable sugars. Even for bottling as a primer??? Thanks for the response... Chip

 

[Chip99]

A strong, high AA bittering hop is probably the single biggest impact on the character you’re chasing. I like cascade hops, for example ( mainly because that’s what grows here, and I’m hoping one day I have enough for a batch of beer ). Cascade AA pale in comparison to to the average CTZ, Chinook, Centennial, Citra, Mosaic, etc. My last batch of Cascades were 5.7 AA, where I just got some galaxy at 14.4 AA.

If you plug some of these into the recipe builder, you’ll see just how much more quickly the high AA hops scale towards total IBUs in a recipe. I’ve done a few IPAs, and full disclosure, as a style they are outside my wheelhouse, but changing from a medium AA 60 minute hop to a high AA 60 minute hop completely changed the final product. As an example, here is one that was good, drinkable ... but BITTER

View attachment 31344

I’d worked up to this hop payload not changing the mash bill. The full ounce of Citra for 60 minutes was a little out of balance for my tastes and in subsequent efforts I reduced this to a half ounce for 60, giving me more room on the flavoring hops and it came out much more balanced, and obviously not as bitter.

By the same token, if I loaded up this mash bill with Cascade, h107 to achieve the same 67 IBUs, it wouldn’t be bitter enough. I know, I’ve tried.

Almost 16 pounds on the grain bill!!! Most I've done was eleven I think. Lots of hops too. And I don't dry hop. I want to ferment and forget until it's time to bottle. But thanks for the info... Chip

 

[Chip99]

Best method to get the taste the recipe is shooting for

Where you at in Kentucky? I'm in South Texas now but was working in Louisville for a year and Fort Cambell for four. I designed the new gates at Fort Knox where the US Treasury is after 9-11. Small world... Chip

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

Thanks. My grains are crushed. I don't have a mill and honestly don't want to bother unless it is a huge difference in performance. I brew 5 gallons about every two or three weeks. So I don't know how much benefit I get from buying in quantity. Right now I'm producing IPA's at about one dollar per bottle. Dry malt sounds like an easy cheap addition to up fermentable sugars. Even for bottling as a primer??? Thanks for the response... Chip

You definitely don't need to buy a mill. I brewed for 10 years before I bought one, and the only reason was that my LHBS (Local Home Brew Shop) closed down. There are a few benefits to having your own mill. One is that you can mill your grain as fine as you want it; which may help to extract a little more sugar from the grain. Another benefit is that you can buy your grain in larger amounts (i.e. base grain in 50lb or 25kg sacks). This will save you money. As long as you store it cool and dry it can last for a year or two (or more?) before it begins to lose flavor. As often as you brew it might make sense in the future but, as you are just starting out, don't worry about it.

 

[Chip99]

You definitely don't need to buy a mill. I brewed for 10 years before I bought one, and the only reason was that my LHBS (Local Home Brew Shop) closed down. There are a few benefits to having your own mill. One is that you can mill your grain as fine as you want it; which may help to extract a little more sugar from the grain. Another benefit is that you can buy your grain in larger amounts (i.e. base grain in 50lb or 25kg sacks). This will save you money. As long as you store it cool and dry it can last for a year or two (or more?) before it begins to lose flavor. As often as you brew it might make sense in the future but, as you are just starting out, don't worry about it.

I just like to keep enough kits on hand for say six months or so. With the grain already milled the kits come with them vacuum packed so I'm not sure buying 50 lb bags will save me much especially if I have to mill it. I also have a buddy who owns a brew pub who says I do such a minimal amount he would give me the grain!!! It's not about saving money for me it's about creating the brew myself and I do actually enjoy knowing and doing it all myself. Thanks for the input... Chip