I can't get my brews to taste of hops

[HighVoltageMan!]

Sunfire is right about oxygen. It destroys hop aroma and flavor. The hops tend to change over time and it’s goes from pleasant to blah.

The other thing to look for is hop quality. Some homebrew shops package their own hops. There is no idea what the harvest date is and if they were packaged poorly it would have a negative impact on the hops. I buy all my hops from Yakima Valley hops. They’re dated by harvest year and vacuum packed in Mylar bags. Very good quality.

The wort at pitch is a good indication of hop flavor, as it ferments it changes. But you should know by the wort if the hops were of good quality.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Hopefully, the forum will forgive me as I am in the process of drinking a few of the hoppy style beers. I played around with an idea that I had for a moderate alcohol hazyish beer. I would welcome constructive criticism as this is only an idea with my simple equipment. I had 41ish IBUs in BeerSmith and more in this program with 2oz of hops (1oz Cascade at 60) (1oz Mosaic at 10). I can't see needing the huge amount of hops the OP is using even if generously dry hopping. I agree with the others: Something is up. Either the hops are not good, or your senses are not good. I still would use a lighter malt like an American Pale.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1297510/early-riser-pale-ale-v2

 

[Dirty Dingo Brewing CO.]

I think that with the more mild malts (pils/pale/wheat/etc) you definitely get more hop aroma, but it's nothing to stress about. @Sunfire96 is right, Maris Otter is a great malt for a NEIPA. In fact, here in OZ, Gladfield's regular Pale (New Zealand) is basically the same as Maris colour and flavour wise, Maris is a tad more biscuity, but overall my preferred for a NEIPA.

To sum all this up, I would recommend using ascorbic acid in your dry hop, and avoid oxidation at all costs. Even a slight amount of oxygen can fuck up a beer!

 

[Steve SPF]

We use at least 90% Maris Otter in every brew, an excellent malt so no worries there. Malt Miller are very good so I can't imagine any problems there either.

Is it possible that the bittering addition is overwhelming everything else? We use tiny bittering additions now, and only use that because I'm not quite brave enough to cut it out completely. As a 'for instance', for an 85lt batch of Citra pale we would use a 10gm bittering addition and then 100gm at 5 minutes, 100gm at flameout and then dry hop on day3 and day 5.

If you can't do closed transfers then those really juicy NEIPA styles may be out of reach (we can't do them at this stage either) but with the hops you are using there's no reason that really flavourful beers can't be achieved; aromas not so much.

 

[Zambi]

Have you had your beer tasted by others? And what do they say?
Maybe you just got a very high treshold for bitter?
(Mine is quite low, I find bitterness overpowers very quickly)

 

[Ward Chillington]

Be bold and brew the first SEIPA with hops from Florida!

https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/plants/edibles/vegetables/hops.html

Episode 69 of Experimental Brewing did an interview with one of the farmers leading the way.

 

[Zefram]

Malt Miller (UK) are pretty good for hop freshness.

Pretty much no hop flavour from the beginning. I'm wondering if it's because my hopping regimen is too basic? Bittering hops at 60mins, then nothing till right at the end of the boil?

Just a thought, but maybe try shifting some of those finishing hops to 5-10 minutes before the end of the boil. That should increase the flavor some way. I echo what the others say about oxidation... I'd eliminate that possibility first.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Malt has little to do with aroma or hop flavor. Stronger flavored malts like Maris Otter just stand up better to the increased hop flavor, but it doesn’t mute aroma or flavor.

 

[Craigerrr]

Bottle conditioning is a tough one for brews with planned high amounts of hop flavor and aroma. So many opportunities for O2 contact. Including the actual filling of the bottles. I did make some very good bottle conditioned brews, but when I started kegging my beer quality took a quantum leap. If you are hook line and sinker into brewing you may want to consider starting to gather together the necessary equipment for kegging. You don't have to go all new, you should be able to find some used equipment for sale if you look.

Just my opinion, but for a West coast style IPA, 7 ounces of the right hops at the right times should be good, if not a bare minimum. For a real lip smacking NE style, 7 ounces of hops is woefully inadequate. I use a pound in my NEIPA's to get the results I like.

 

[Craigerrr]

You are saying that you have "the water down", do you know what your actual water profile is? If you are making NEIPA, you need to have a heavily malt forward profile. This helps bring out the hop flavors, and aids in chieving the desired mouthful.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I use a pound in my NEIPA's to get the results I like.

Yes!!!!

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

That does not seem at all too basic; this is what I do for many of my beers.

Have someone else - ideally someone who has a palate for beer - taste and see what they think.

Not saying this is you, but a friend works at a candle store, and a customer complained she bought one but it had no scent. Turns out her sense of smell was impaired...

My senses have been off since I had Covid earlier this year, oftentimes not being able to taste my food properly, but I've been drinking beer from supermarket and pubs and all is fine. I hear ya though.

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

You are saying that you have "the water down", do you know what your actual water profile is? If you are making NEIPA, you need to have a heavily malt forward profile. This helps bring out the hop flavors, and aids in chieving the desired mouthful.

Whichever style I brew I always research the water profile, so it's definitely not that.

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

One time I made a very hop forward beer: all hops in at either whirlpool or dry hop. It tasted like orange juice out of the fermenter, so flavorful and aromatic. And then I bungled bottling it, splashed in the bottling bucket and used swing top bottles that didn't seal all the way. When I drank the conditioned beer it had lost all of the hop flavor and aroma. Oxygen can absolutely kill the flavors of a hoppy beer.

Eventually I started bottling from the fermenter which helped a lot. Now I do closed transfers that elimate any oxygen touching the finished beer. They taste much better these days.

Also my favorite commercial IPA is made with 95% Maris Otter and 5% crystal malt. MO makes a great IPA, especially a West Coast IPA

I think you're right. When I first started out I was making very crude BIAB beers, syphoning directly from the fermenter into bottles, and some of those brews turned out really hoppy. After some ponderance, I legtimately think the syphoning bucket step is the problem.

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

I think that with the more mild malts (pils/pale/wheat/etc) you definitely get more hop aroma, but it's nothing to stress about. @Sunfire96 is right, Maris Otter is a great malt for a NEIPA. In fact, here in OZ, Gladfield's regular Pale (New Zealand) is basically the same as Maris colour and flavour wise, Maris is a tad more biscuity, but overall my preferred for a NEIPA.

To sum all this up, I would recommend using ascorbic acid in your dry hop, and avoid oxidation at all costs. Even a slight amount of oxygen can fuck up a beer!

Yeah, loads of breweries in the UK make hoppy beers with Maris Otter. I get the point that it's more flavourful than American 2-row, but I don't think it's detrimental to hop punch.

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

Have you had your beer tasted by others? And what do they say?
Maybe you just got a very high treshold for bitter?
(Mine is quite low, I find bitterness overpowers very quickly)

My friends love my beers but they agree about the hops. The quality of the beer is otherwise really good. It's like when you get a really nice cask ale and you can perceive a nice subtle hop flavour without really tasting. A bit like noble hops. But the IPAs I'm trying to make should be exploding with hoppy aroma according to my hopping schedules.

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

I've concluded that the problem is very likely oxidation, and that I shall buy a fermentor with a tap and see how that works. Probably a Fermzilla.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply to this thread.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I've concluded that the problem is very likely oxidation, and that I shall buy a fermentor with a tap and see how that works. Probably a Fermzilla.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply to this thread.

Fermzilla won't have a tap mate pressure fermenter as you know unless your installing one.

Rekon your on the money on the Oxidation.
Closed transfers will help heaps.

 

[Sunfire96]

I've concluded that the problem is very likely oxidation, and that I shall buy a fermentor with a tap and see how that works. Probably a Fermzilla.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply to this thread.

A bucket with a plastic spigot would work well. Or something like the Fermonster with a spigot, I have a couple of those and like them a lot

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

I think it's time to seriously consider kegging.