How much yeast?

[Donoroto]

The other thing they need is a lot of aeration at pitch, 12 ppm of oxygen or more.

Pure Oxygen and a carbstone, so we're OK there.

So if you pitch 465 billion cells, that an underpitch, but it's not so low the beer won't turn out. If you used one smack pack, you grossly underpitched.

Thank you. So where were you when I first asked the question?? ;-) It is on me to have not done my research first, in any case.

sigh. I put in 3 smack-packs of liquid yeast. And the batch ended up as 4 gallons.
According to Palmer, 300B/16 liters = ~19, or about 1.12 B/l/P, so somewhat below the lowest recommended pitch rate of 1.25, and well below the pitch rate for a 'big' lager of 1.75.

So we're at 1.033 at the moment: steady but slow, rate is about -0.005 per day.

Live and learn, eh?

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Pure Oxygen and a carbstone, so we're OK there.
Thank you. So where were you when I first asked the question?? ;-) It is on me to have not done my research first, in any case.

sigh. I put in 3 smack-packs of liquid yeast. And the batch ended up as 4 gallons.
According to Palmer, 300B/16 liters = ~19, or about 1.12 B/l/P, so somewhat below the lowest recommended pitch rate of 1.25, and well below the pitch rate for a 'big' lager of 1.75.

So we're at 1.033 at the moment: steady but slow, rate is about -0.005 per day.

Live and learn, eh?

If brewing beer was easy, it would be boring. One of the best ways to learn is to brew and make mistakes along the way.

As I tell my kids, Eddie Van Halen didn’t play Eruption the first time he picked up the guitar. It took a little while to get that good. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Jason Stewart]

HighVoltageMan,

Been doing alot of research on this subject. Would you mind giving me your input?

I'm about to brew my first Lager. Doing a Marzen, 10 gallon batch. OG will be 1.059 and should finish out at 1.015. Yes, I will oxygenate with a diffuser stone/pure oxygen. Using Wyeast 2633. I’ve never made a starter before, but I plan to for this Lager. The recipe I’m following has no specific instructions for pitch rate, but the Wyeast website lists a standard pitching rate for a 1.059 lager, 62F pitching temp will be 6 Million cells/ML.

I’m estimating 227.1 Billion cells required for my 10 gal batch. That comes out to a little over 2 1/4 Wyeast 2633 Smack-Packs. Reading all the above comments, this seems a bit low. With my starter, would you suggest going with 3 or 4 Smack-Packs. Thanks for the input!!

 

[Donoroto]

Ok, on the surface that seems like a very low pitch rate. At a rate of 1.5 (Billion cells per Plato per liter) and a gravity of 1.060, that is 22 Billion per liter. 10 gallons is about 40 liters, or 880 Billion cells.

That is a LOT more than 227 Billion, which might be appropriate for an ale but not a lager.

The answer us to use a starter. Maybe two.

A 2 liter starter of 1.040 wort with 2 packages (200 B) yeast will double. So 4 packages with 5 liters of wort will multiply about 2.3 times, about what you need. Or 9 packages of yeast...

Let me know if you need the references from where I got these numbers.

 

[Donoroto]

Oh, and that yeast is very happy at 50 F. 62 is a bit above the recommended range for primary fermentation

 

[Jason Stewart]

Ok, on the surface that seems like a very low pitch rate. At a rate of 1.5 (Billion cells per Plato per liter) and a gravity of 1.060, that is 22 Billion per liter. 10 gallons is about 40 liters, or 880 Billion cells.

That is a LOT more than 227 Billion, which might be appropriate for an ale but not a lager.

The answer us to use a starter. Maybe two.

A 2 liter starter of 1.040 wort with 2 packages (200 B) yeast will double. So 4 packages with 5 liters of wort will multiply about 2.3 times, about what you need. Or 9 packages of yeast...

Let me know if you need the references from where I got these numbers.

Thank you Donoroto!!! I'll do 4 packages with starters. Cheers

 

[Donoroto]

As you saw, I badly underpitched 4 gallons at 1.071 with 'only' 3 packages of yeast. It took about 10 days to get fown to 1.022, and I have not yet put it into a keg to lager, so I haven't tasted it yet.

Please let us know how it comes out, lots of people would appreciate hearing.

 

[Jason Stewart]

As you saw, I badly underpitched 4 gallons at 1.071 with 'only' 3 packages of yeast. It took about 10 days to get fown to 1.022, and I have not yet put it into a keg to lager, so I haven't tasted it yet.

Please let us know how it comes out, lots of people would appreciate hearing.

I sure will, may be a while since I'll be lagering. Thanks for the help!!

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

HighVoltageMan,

Been doing alot of research on this subject. Would you mind giving me your input?

I'm about to brew my first Lager. Doing a Marzen, 10 gallon batch. OG will be 1.059 and should finish out at 1.015. Yes, I will oxygenate with a diffuser stone/pure oxygen. Using Wyeast 2633. I’ve never made a starter before, but I plan to for this Lager. The recipe I’m following has no specific instructions for pitch rate, but the Wyeast website lists a standard pitching rate for a 1.059 lager, 62F pitching temp will be 6 Million cells/ML.

I’m estimating 227.1 Billion cells required for my 10 gal batch. That comes out to a little over 2 1/4 Wyeast 2633 Smack-Packs. Reading all the above comments, this seems a bit low. With my starter, would you suggest going with 3 or 4 Smack-Packs. Thanks for the input!!

Sorry for responding so late, I’ve been a bit busy.

That being said, the best results come from using a starter for number of reasons. First the yeast from a starter are young and fresh. Very important for any beer. Second, the amount of yeast per pack varies based on age and handling. When you make a starter for a lager, start with a single smack pack, or vial of liquid yeast in a 1 liter starter. That gives you a relatively reasonable estimate of a yeast count. Usually 180-200 billion cells. I personally then build a 4 liter starter from that 1liter starter for a 5-7 gallon beer. If you want a “German” sized pitch for a 1.050, 10 gallon beer it would require a 5 liter starter after the 1 liter starter.

if you start with a 5 gallon beer at first, your pitch is much more reasonable. If you insist on a 10 gallon lager, then use 1 smack pack of 2124 yeast, build a 1 liter starter. Pitch into a 5 gallon cream ale. Then pitch your ten gallon on top of the yeast cake. 2124 will make a great cream ale and a great Oktoberfest. That yeast is really flexible.