Help identifying off-flavor/ potential characteristic of the yeast?

[Ward Chillington]

The only hoses I use to transfer into fermenter are the pumps that come with the Grainfather system. To sanitize, I run boiling wort through the pump for 15 minutes.

Ok good...yeah...maybe needs to get some carbonation and a couple of weeks so it's not green...keep at it.

Also, yes this batch is still in primary.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

If you are taking about me, its here

https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/bent-nail-2-0.15348/

I knew it was someone from this thread! Your setup was most impressive!!

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

Ok good...yeah...maybe needs to get some carbonation and a couple of weeks so it's not green...keep at it.

I tried a small sample from the bottom of the fermenter, with plenty of yeasties floating around. Tasted like normalish beer but with a hint of smokiness. Phenols? Wild yeast infection? I don't know anymore.

 

[Minbari]

I knew it was someone from this thread! Your setup was most impressive!!

Thanks. took a good year to build it. Still tinkering with it.

 

[Bigbre04]

Maybe I'm not being clear. After you have cooled down the wort so you can get it into the fermenter, that is the "cold side" of the brewing process.

To do that, you are transferring it via hoses and such into the fermenter. Are the hoses clean? Are any of the valves any hoses connect to getting the Star San treatment including up in the barb?

Maybe I missed it but is this batch still in the fermenter?

Apple/cidery smell is not really a common infection off-flavor. Its much more of a yeast stress flavor. Acetaldehyde is generally described as green apple. The tough thing with sensory is that what i think smells like apples or cider might smell/be described by another person as a completely different smell/flavor.

 

[Bigbre04]

I tried a small sample from the bottom of the fermenter, with plenty of yeasties floating around. Tasted like normalish beer but with a hint of smokiness. Phenols? Wild yeast infection? I don't know anymore.

phenols can come from belgian yeast. Strong phenols smell like bandaids or plasticy to me.

https://www.mrbeer.com/blog/post/es...t-are-they-and-what-do-they-contribute-part-2

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

Apple/cidery smell is not really a common infection off-flavor. Its much more of a yeast stress flavor. Acetaldehyde is generally described as green apple. The tough thing with sensory is that what i think smells like apples or cider might smell/be described by another person as a completely different smell/flavor.

I don't know how the yeast would be stressed. Pitched according to the pitch rate suggestion for ales of that gravity. Also added nutrient during boil.

 

[Bigbre04]

I don't know how the yeast would be stressed. Pitched according to the pitch rate suggestion for ales of that gravity. Also added nutrient during boil.

Yeast can be fickle. You could have had a lower cell count then you expected, there are lots of variables.

I have also noticed mead/cider like off flavors from small amounts of honey in a batch, that i ended up having to dump.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

Ok, I tried a sample from the top of the fermenter. It tastes so off it is hard to describe. Firstly, it smells like mead. Like a really dry mead. I get a lot of alcohol notes with a hint of honey. Secondly, the flavor tastes like chemicals and spice. I am only getting the chemical and spicy notes, with a hint of sweetness maybe. I do not think that it could improve from this. There are essentially no beer notes I can gather from this taste. Maybe wild yeast infection? I do not know. I think after this I will deep clean all my fermentation equipment.

 

[Minbari]

Ok, I tried a sample from the top of the fermenter. It tastes so off it is hard to describe. Firstly, it smells like mead. Like a really dry mead. I get a lot of alcohol notes with a hint of honey. Secondly, the flavor tastes like chemicals and spice. I am only getting the chemical and spicy notes, with a hint of sweetness maybe. I do not think that it could improve from this. There are essentially no beer notes I can gather from this taste. Maybe wild yeast infection? I do not know. I think after this I will deep clean all my fermentation equipment.

It happens. We all make dumpers. Give it a good solid cleaning. Maybe pour a few gallons of near boiling water through all your hoses and fermenter.

Iodophor works great too, nothing lives through a string mix of that

 

[Bigbre04]

Ok, I tried a sample from the top of the fermenter. It tastes so off it is hard to describe. Firstly, it smells like mead. Like a really dry mead. I get a lot of alcohol notes with a hint of honey. Secondly, the flavor tastes like chemicals and spice. I am only getting the chemical and spicy notes, with a hint of sweetness maybe. I do not think that it could improve from this. There are essentially no beer notes I can gather from this taste. Maybe wild yeast infection? I do not know. I think after this I will deep clean all my fermentation equipment.

To me. The unfinished mead smell is very phenolic leaning towards plastic bandaids but also tastes like high alcohols with a slight fruitiness that is hard to place. Its almost medicinal, to me. I hate the flavor of it, but i love good aged mead when it is done right.

This sounds a lot like what i got from my honey brown that i made a long time ago. Basically your yeast was super happy and chewed through all of the simple sugars at a high fermentation temp. If it tastes like un-finished mead, it is not trash, it will just need a long ageing period to clean it up.

I dumped my tank because I didnt have time or space to sit on the beer(i have a different situation then most on here).

If I were you, I would leave it be warm for a week or two(to make sure the fermentation is complete). Do your standard packaging(corny, bottle, whatever) and tuck those away in a dark cool place in your house and forget about them for a few more weeks. taste one occasionally, it might become a really stellar beer.

like i said above most breweries would be willing to help you out if you can find a brewer.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

It happens. We all make dumpers. Give it a good solid cleaning. Maybe pour a few gallons of near boiling water through all your hoses and fermenter.

Iodophor works great too, nothing lives through a string mix of that

I don't have any Idophor but I do have bleach. Was thinking of running hot PBW into the fermenter, then sanitizing with bleach and rinsing with hot water. I am going to bring a sample to my local brewery before I pour it out to get some feedback.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

To me. The unfinished mead smell is very phenolic leaning towards plastic bandaids but also tastes like high alcohols with a slight fruitiness that is hard to place. Its almost medicinal, to me. I hate the flavor of it, but i love good aged mead when it is done right.

This sounds a lot like what i got from my honey brown that i made a long time ago. Basically your yeast was super happy and chewed through all of the simple sugars at a high fermentation temp. If it tastes like un-finished mead, it is not trash, it will just need a long ageing period to clean it up.

I dumped my tank because I didnt have time or space to sit on the beer(i have a different situation then most on here).

If I were you, I would leave it be warm for a week or two(to make sure the fermentation is complete). Do your standard packaging(corny, bottle, whatever) and tuck those away in a dark cool place in your house and forget about them for a few more weeks. taste one occasionally, it might become a really stellar beer.

like i said above most breweries would be willing to help you out if you can find a brewer.

I have two corny kegs. I can try what you said and keg it and leave it in my keezer or a closet for a few weeks. I will definitely bring it by a brewery for feedback.

 

[Zambi]

[Ignore, I replied, but mixed up threads]

 

[Bigbre04]

I have two corny kegs. I can try what you said and keg it and leave it in my keezer or a closet for a few weeks. I will definitely bring it by a brewery for feedback.

sucks to say it, but meads age for months, i would assume 4-6 months, but i dont know for sure. I would leave it in a closet at room temp and it would speed the aging up(i would assume).

the brewery will be able to identify the off flavor for you assuming they have done sensory training(not all brewers have).

I also actively avoid bleach whenever I can, its really hard on stainless steel and can leave some nasty off flavors in the beer if it isnt perfectly rinsed out. Iodiphore, star san, peracetic(what i use) are generally preferred and safe.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

sucks to say it, but meads age for months, i would assume 4-6 months, but i dont know for sure. I would leave it in a closet at room temp and it would speed the aging up(i would assume).

the brewery will be able to identify the off flavor for you assuming they have done sensory training(not all brewers have).

I also actively avoid bleach whenever I can, its really hard on stainless steel and can leave some nasty off flavors in the beer if it isnt perfectly rinsed out. Iodiphore, star san, peracetic(what i use) are generally preferred and safe.

Considering the batch cost me 25 bucks for 5 gallons, I think I will just eat it and pour it out rather than tie my equipment down for that long. I will, however, bottle some of this batch and leave it for learning purposes.

Hm. I understand the power of star san and actively use it during my brew days, but if it is infection I want the peace of mind of using bleach. However I am also sick of weird off flavors in my batches. So much to consider!!! I will start by bottling some of this batch in a week of so and taking the beer to a brewery.

 

[Bigbre04]

Considering the batch cost me 25 bucks for 5 gallons, I think I will just eat it and pour it out rather than tie my equipment down for that long. I will, however, bottle some of this batch and leave it for learning purposes.

Hm. I understand the power of star san and actively use it during my brew days, but if it is infection I want the peace of mind of using bleach. However I am also sick of weird off flavors in my batches. So much to consider!!! I will start by bottling some of this batch in a week of so and taking the beer to a brewery.

100%

Yeast off flavors come from poor temp control and yeast stress(under pitching, high fermentation temps, over/under nutrients, etc.)

Infection is very different. This doesn't sound like infection to me.

I run a hot rinse(180f), 30 min caustic cycle @ 180 f, 20 min nitric/phosphoric acid cycle, and 15 mins open and 15 mins closed paa cycle. Put my tank under 5psi to push the sani out and then brew. Everything stays under pressure and buttoned up until there is wort going into it. I'm not really a homebrewer so I have much more gear(brewpub).

Hot water to burn your hoses and anything that can handle the temp. Clean as hot as the chemicals ask for. Minimize infection routes.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

100%

Yeast off flavors come from poor temp control and yeast stress(under pitching, high fermentation temps, over/under nutrients, etc.)

Infection is very different. This doesn't sound like infection to me.

I run a hot rinse(180f), 30 min caustic cycle @ 180 f, 20 min nitric/phosphoric acid cycle, and 15 mins open and 15 mins closed paa cycle. Put my tank under 5psi to push the sani out and then brew. Everything stays under pressure and buttoned up until there is wort going into it. I'm not really a homebrewer so I have much more gear(brewpub).

Hot water to burn your hoses and anything that can handle the temp. Clean as hot as the chemicals ask for. Minimize infection routes.

On the commerical scale I know it is necessary to do all those steps. For me, will a hot PBW soak combined with an overnight soak in Star-san do the trick? I can only limit oxygen exposure so much considering my equipment setup. If I do pour it out, I will just leave the star san in there until brew day.

 

[Minbari]

On the commerical scale I know it is necessary to do all those steps. For me, will a hot PBW soak combined with an overnight soak in Star-san do the trick? I can only limit oxygen exposure so much considering my equipment setup. If I do pour it out, I will just leave the star san in there until brew day.

That and hot water will do wonders.

And no bleach on stainless! You will have to re-passivate it

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

That and hot water will do wonders.

And no bleach on stainless! You will have to re-passivate it

Got it. Doing a PBW wash now at 160F. I bottled 8 bottles for my local brewery and to see if it improves. Will put 5 gallons of star san water in there tomorrow to kill the remnants. Hopefully that fixes everything. My next brew day I am going to try a Kviek strain on the same recipe to see if it fixes any off flavors that may have been caused by fermenting too warm. We will see!