Has anybody done this ....

I've come to the conclusion that there really isn't any right or wrong way to go about this brewing beer thing you just gotta find what works best for you in your situation.

+1
I found that what works for me is to enjoy brew day, do as little as possible and get out of the way. The list of advice I don't follow, the total tonnage of equipment I don't have and the volume of set principles that I simply ignore could fill a gymnasium. :)

That's not to dismiss or say that HSA isn't a thing, or that the laws of physics cease to exist on my stove. But I can't scoop HSA out of the wort with my Mash spoon, so I don't worry about it.
 
I get the feeling Roadie is just exploring the rabbit hole of brewing here on this forum and prying for answers that sometimes we don't even know ourselves :p!

Through teaching others you can both learn that's why I love the brew forum here;).

Your at an exciting time in your brewing Roadie takes me back to my first couple of years at the HB brew front so many questions so many answers and differing opinions out there sounds alot like life in general.

You just gotta wade through the information try it out for yourself see if it works for you and adapt it to your brewing process.

I've come to the conclusion that there really isn't any right or wrong way to go about this brewing beer thing you just gotta find what works best for you in your situation.

Cheers keep on drinking and keep on brewing share your failures share your successes so we can all learn and become better brewers.
Precisely. You're not the first Aussie to grasp what I do to learn. Sometimes I think I was just born on the wrong continent. Most of us Yanks tend to be too impatient to spend the time in open dialogue and discussion, and simply accept the words of our predecessors. That's not to say we shouldn't read history and learn from it, but perhaps we should be more open to documenting effects of more modern ingredients and processes, or even better documenting the 'old' knowledge. That 'better' documentation should NEVER exclude original knowledge, though, without scientific proof, not just opinion. Opinions are great. Science is better.

I might be what an Aussie would call a sh**stirrer, too.:rolleyes: Certainly the missus does on less than rare occasion. Please don't ever take anything I say to contradict as an affront of any kind, unless of course someone bashes me first. I do like to have fun while I learn, and sometimes I play devil's advocate. I promise, if I find ANYTHING during my learning curve that helps define the effects of "as quickly as possible", I'll share it. For now, I can see I need to do some experimentation with less expensive recipes to test the results. But, will those results be accurate for more complicated recipes that will obviously have considerably different chemical properties?

To all, I promise, this was just an attempt to stimulate discussion about the relevance of HSA so we could all possibly learn something. We don't always have time for the long topics on the Zoom meeting, and some of them are a lot more nebulous than others, causing us to be dependent on the written word of others, which quite often was something the writers also read somewhere. Nowhere did I intend any personal affront or reference to anyone nor their abilities and skills. Most of it was pointing to what I perceive as contradictions or discrepancies in Hot-Side processes and hoping to gain some insight on what more people have better success with. Honestly, I'm nowhere near judge enough to determine if one beer is better than the next other than possible appearance or my personal preferences in taste. That's also an ongoing skillset I want to improve. What could be better than a goal to taste beer and brew a better one?
 
+1
I found that what works for me is to enjoy brew day, do as little as possible and get out of the way. The list of advice I don't follow, the total tonnage of equipment I don't have and the volume of set principles that I simply ignore could fill a gymnasium. :)

That's not to dismiss or say that HSA isn't a thing, or that the laws of physics cease to exist on my stove. But I can't scoop HSA out of the wort with my Mash spoon, so I don't worry about it.
Bingo. Defining the breaking point is what's hard to do.
 
Hell, I may be stupid, but I can cool a boiling kettle down to around 78F in 15 or 20 minutes with a wort chiller and a little bit of ice. That is with tap water that is around 80F. I have also used bad yeast and had to repitch into a fermenter that was closed and sat overnight.
If you want a little more clarity, you can filter some of the mess with a strainer and a funnel draining into the fermenter. The splashing from that also gives you oxygen below 80F.
If you don't want leaves in the wort, you can brew under a canopy.
I want to help where I can and learn where I can which is why a agree about condensing the questions. However, I'm probably too damn simple:)

I had to read that again to see that you included some ice. Otherwise, I was going to cry foul that you were getting wort temps down to 78F with cooling water at 80F. Were that the case, one of the thermometers is lying. 15-20 minutes is a lot of water. I typically cut the flow way back so that I get max heat absorption in the water. Never had a bad yeast problem that I didn't detect before pitching. The nose knows. Not sure how that applies to the general HSA conversation. Clarity can be achieved many ways. ALL of them include removing particulate either through filtering or coagulation. Perhaps you didn't notice I now brew inside my tractor shed. Splashing while transferring to the fermenter is my primary means of aerating before pitch. There was never a question about that, other than why 80F is a magic number. Someone else introduced HSA discussion, which I THINK was created by my suggestion that I pump the hot wort into my fermenter with it sitting in the freezer and allowing it to chill in there. The fermenter is heavy and very awkward to handle when full, especially with a blown up back. This is still long, but certainly more condensed. Not sure it's clearer, but I tried to address all of your response.

I NEVER intended to infer nor imply anyone was 'stupid' or 'simple', nor that I'm any smarter than anyone else. If that's what you got from my messages, I apologize.
 
I had to read that again to see that you included some ice. Otherwise, I was going to cry foul that you were getting wort temps down to 78F with cooling water at 80F. Were that the case, one of the thermometers is lying. 15-20 minutes is a lot of water. I typically cut the flow way back so that I get max heat absorption in the water. Never had a bad yeast problem that I didn't detect before pitching. The nose knows. Not sure how that applies to the general HSA conversation. Clarity can be achieved many ways. ALL of them include removing particulate either through filtering or coagulation. Perhaps you didn't notice I now brew inside my tractor shed. Splashing while transferring to the fermenter is my primary means of aerating before pitch. There was never a question about that, other than why 80F is a magic number. Someone else introduced HSA discussion, which I THINK was created by my suggestion that I pump the hot wort into my fermenter with it sitting in the freezer and allowing it to chill in there. The fermenter is heavy and very awkward to handle when full, especially with a blown up back. This is still long, but certainly more condensed. Not sure it's clearer, but I tried to address all of your response.

I NEVER intended to infer nor imply anyone was 'stupid' or 'simple', nor that I'm any smarter than anyone else. If that's what you got from my messages, I apologize.
You didn't. I was just trying to make a point in a smart a** way. Sometimes trying to get a certain expression comes out wrong on a forum. That was my fault. Yes, it is important to get into why things work the way they do, but it is also just as important to tell people exactly what you want. I have some people that I love very much drive me nuts for that very reason. I married one of them:)
 
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Precisely. You're not the first Aussie to grasp what I do to learn. Sometimes I think I was just born on the wrong continent. Most of us Yanks tend to be too impatient to spend the time in open dialogue and discussion, and simply accept the words of our predecessors. That's not to say we shouldn't read history and learn from it, but perhaps we should be more open to documenting effects of more modern ingredients and processes, or even better documenting the 'old' knowledge. That 'better' documentation should NEVER exclude original knowledge, though, without scientific proof, not just opinion. Opinions are great. Science is better.

I might be what an Aussie would call a sh**stirrer, too.:rolleyes: Certainly the missus does on less than rare occasion. Please don't ever take anything I say to contradict as an affront of any kind, unless of course someone bashes me first. I do like to have fun while I learn, and sometimes I play devil's advocate. I promise, if I find ANYTHING during my learning curve that helps define the effects of "as quickly as possible", I'll share it. For now, I can see I need to do some experimentation with less expensive recipes to test the results. But, will those results be accurate for more complicated recipes that will obviously have considerably different chemical properties?

To all, I promise, this was just an attempt to stimulate discussion about the relevance of HSA so we could all possibly learn something. We don't always have time for the long topics on the Zoom meeting, and some of them are a lot more nebulous than others, causing us to be dependent on the written word of others, which quite often was something the writers also read somewhere. Nowhere did I intend any personal affront or reference to anyone nor their abilities and skills. Most of it was pointing to what I perceive as contradictions or discrepancies in Hot-Side processes and hoping to gain some insight on what more people have better success with. Honestly, I'm nowhere near judge enough to determine if one beer is better than the next other than possible appearance or my personal preferences in taste. That's also an ongoing skillset I want to improve. What could be better than a goal to taste beer and brew a better one?
Sounds like you've got some brewing to do:)
 
You didn't. I was just trying to make a point in a smart a** way. Sometimes trying to get a certain expression comes out wrong on a forum. That was my fault. Yes, it is important to get into why things work the way they do, but it is also just as important to tell people exactly what you want. I have some people that I love very much drive me nuts for that very reason. I married one of them:)
I’m sometimes a smartarse too. (possibly more often than I think). Case in point about the typed word having a completely different intention,I had to go fishing to make sure I didn’t offend.

That said, it seems that we should avoid documented pitfalls in brewing, yet also weigh the impact of the avoidance on quality as well as costs. Finding the middle ground is the key. I got some of what I wanted with the discussion, that being some see the same discrepancies I do, and just push on. So, short of no-sparge brewing, seems I have some testing to do for learning and improvement. I like the “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it “ principle, but I also like improvements that lessen the work of primitive ways. I’ve made exactly 1 batch since I got a pump and hoses. I have much to learn and experience. I prefer not learning bad things that I have to change later, but isn’t that learning too?
 
I’m sometimes a smartarse too. (possibly more often than I think). Case in point about the typed word having a completely different intention,I had to go fishing to make sure I didn’t offend.

That said, it seems that we should avoid documented pitfalls in brewing, yet also weigh the impact of the avoidance on quality as well as costs. Finding the middle ground is the key. I got some of what I wanted with the discussion, that being some see the same discrepancies I do, and just push on. So, short of no-sparge brewing, seems I have some testing to do for learning and improvement. I like the “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it “ principle, but I also like improvements that lessen the work of primitive ways. I’ve made exactly 1 batch since I got a pump and hoses. I have much to learn and experience. I prefer not learning bad things that I have to change later, but isn’t that learning too?
 
It is important to ask a lot of questions before you try something new as it might be a month before you figured out if you screwed up. The nice people here gave me a good idea for a flameout hop addition for a Pale Ale that I am going to try in a couple of weeks.
 
It is important to ask a lot of questions before you try something new as it might be a month before you figured out if you screwed up. The nice people here gave me a good idea for a flameout hop addition for a Pale Ale that I am going to try in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, just maybe I need to be more specific with fewer questions in each post. I tend to forget that when I start responding to multiple replies in one post.

The original question was if anyone partially cooled a batch, then used their cooling chamber to finish bringing the batch down to pitch temperature, all in the interest of water conservancy. It morphed to HSA discussion. I did get one affirmation on that technique. Most of my interest lies in learning as much as possible about the effects of cooling and what “as fast as possible “ means. What’s too slow? What’s too fast. Nothing I’ve read answers those questions.
 
Yeah, just maybe I need to be more specific with fewer questions in each post. I tend to forget that when I start responding to multiple replies in one post.

The original question was if anyone partially cooled a batch, then used their cooling chamber to finish bringing the batch down to pitch temperature, all in the interest of water conservancy. It morphed to HSA discussion. I did get one affirmation on that technique. Most of my interest lies in learning as much as possible about the effects of cooling and what “as fast as possible “ means. What’s too slow? What’s too fast. Nothing I’ve read answers those questions.
Today I used my immersion chiller and got the wort to 80'F. Then I put it in my kegerator until it was 60'F at which point I pitched the yeast
 
Today I used my immersion chiller and got the wort to 80'F. Then I put it in my kegerator until it was 60'F at which point I pitched the yeast
Precisely what I was talking about doing, albeit perhaps stopping a little earlier with the temperature. How long did it take to drop from 80 to 60? And, what did you do (and when) to aerate for pitch?

Now we're poking the original question squarely in the eye.
 
Precisely what I was talking about doing, albeit perhaps stopping a little earlier with the temperature. How long did it take to drop from 80 to 60? And, what did you do (and when) to aerate for pitch?

Now we're poking the original question squarely in the eye.
A couple of hours to get from 80 to 60. I used a new packet of dried yeast so I didn't aerate the wort. I have a paint stirrer drill attachment for aerating wort in the keg for liquid yeast. And yes I do have a plate chiller. The immersion chiller is easier now that my tap water is cold again
 
Today I used my immersion chiller and got the wort to 80'F. Then I put it in my kegerator until it was 60'F at which point I pitched the yeast

My summer tap water makes it tough to chill below 80F so I do something similar. I use an immersion chiller to get close to 80, transfer from brew kettle to fermentor, then toss that into an old fridge set to 60F overnight. A little care is needed with the blow-off setup so it doesn't get sucked up into the fermentor as it cools. By morning it's pitching temperature.

I primarily use dry yeast, so there's no need for aeration. If I am using liquid or repitching, then I add it right before pitching when the temp is in the mid to upper 60's. I boil the stone and sanitize the wand... no issues with infections... yet, anyway :D

I've not experienced any off flavors from this technique compared to my non-summer technique. I haven't noticed a big difference with haziness either, although I don't focus too much on that anyway personally (Irish moss + cold crashing mostly).

Cheers!
 
I usually use the imersion chiller on tap water (cool well water) to just below 100 F then empty the ice cube maker tray into a small wash tub fill with water and pump the water with one of the small submersible pumps to recirculate water and reuse the return water into the tub.
This gets me to pitching temp just about the time the ice has all melted.
Unless I forgot to turn off the heat all the way, oops! And fresh ice in the fridge.
 
I usually use the imersion chiller on tap water (cool well water) to just below 100 F then empty the ice cube maker tray into a small wash tub fill with water and pump the water with one of the small submersible pumps to recirculate water and reuse the return water into the tub.
This gets me to pitching temp just about the time the ice has all melted.
Unless I forgot to turn off the heat all the way, oops! And fresh ice in the fridge.
I've done this, but silly me didn't wait on the ice. I started with it, and ran outta ice before I was done, so had to run down the street and get more. I have a small fountain pump (immersion pump) that works well for this technique. It is more trouble to cool in the summer, surely.
 
A couple of hours to get from 80 to 60. I used a new packet of dried yeast so I didn't aerate the wort. I have a paint stirrer drill attachment for aerating wort in the keg for liquid yeast.

Ok, so I guess I was (mis)uninformed that dry yeast doesn't require aeration? How so? Why would it be any different from liquid yeast for needing O2 to do it's thing? EVERY recipe I've ever looked at said to aerate the wort at pitch. But I do like the paint stirrer idea.

And yes I do have a plate chiller. The immersion chiller is easier now that my tap water is cold again

Why is that? More hose connections and things to clean/sterilize post cooling? Since the outside of the immersion chiller is the only thing that contacts the wort, yeah, I agree that it's pretty easy to clean. Mine is a DIY immersion chiller I made with 50 feet of copper line. Originally I was ice-bath chilling, which takes for ever and tons of ice. A plate chiller would need flow reversed for a good flush, then filled with sanitizer, then drained, particularly on the wort side. Is this why it's more trouble? Not too concerned about the water side unless it's leaking, then you have a completely different problem.
 
Ok, so I guess I was (mis)uninformed that dry yeast doesn't require aeration? How so? Why would it be any different from liquid yeast for needing O2 to do it's thing? EVERY recipe I've ever looked at said to aerate the wort at pitch. But I do like the paint stirrer idea.



Why is that? More hose connections and things to clean/sterilize post cooling? Since the outside of the immersion chiller is the only thing that contacts the wort, yeah, I agree that it's pretty easy to clean. Mine is a DIY immersion chiller I made with 50 feet of copper line. Originally I was ice-bath chilling, which takes for ever and tons of ice. A plate chiller would need flow reversed for a good flush, then filled with sanitizer, then drained, particularly on the wort side. Is this why it's more trouble? Not too concerned about the water side unless it's leaking, then you have a completely different problem.
Paging @Craigerrr to recount his conversation with a dry yeast rep... :D

And yes, fewer parts and connections on the IC and easier to clean afterwards
 

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