flavor went downhill fast

Bottling shouldn't be a big concern as far as oxidation. As long as you transfer very carefully the exposure to oxygen in the bottling bucket is pretty minimal. There's CO2 suspended in the beer and the act of racking/draining into a bucket releases enough to blanket the beer temporarily. Same goes with bottles...I don't know of anyone who purges every bottle with CO2 so there's oxygen that has to be pushed out of the way. As long as you rack through a hose/tube that goes all the way to bottom of the bucket so that the end is quickly submerged and use a bottling wand to fill bottles, you're minimizing contact.
Oxidation is the least of your problems...you'll get a wild yeast/sour bug before you ever see substantial oxidation off flavors. That's almost inevitable in the learning process. :rolleyes:
 
I actually did the bicarb/vinegar trick in the bottling bucket yesterday with my apa. Then I got to wondering if there's stray yeast in the vinegar that could have escaped into the bucket. Think I'm just going with JA and jeffpn from now on and be extra careful. I am still thinking about CO2-ing the secondary tho. Lots of folks say the secondary isn't necessary but I like to just look at the brew for a few days before bottling it.
 
I do the taboo secondary as well. I cringe at the start of the siphon when a splash is inevitable. Then I breathe a sigh of relief when the tube is covered in beer. I don't CO2 purge there either. I don't feel it's necessary. To each his own.
 
I'm still new enough at this that I like to fiddle around with the whole process so messing around with secondaries, CO2-ing etc is kinda fun. When I get serious about this hobby I'll probly skip the nonessentials. Being retired gives me lots of time to fiddle...
 
Like I said, to each his own. We're all brewing correctly!!
 
KenK said:
Nosybear, that is awesome -- thanks! Here's where I think I want to use the CO2: Top off the primary before fermentation starts (not sure if this is a good idea); top off the secondary after transfer; and a layer a few inches thick (strange way to put it, I know) in the bottling pail just before transferring from secondary.

Maybe I'm getting carried away here, but I've been seeing so much about oxidation in so many threads that I'm getting a little paranoid. I want to try the same cream ale again but with CO2 and see if that will extend the shelf life beyond a month.

Thanks for the chemistry lesson!
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I think someone's already pointed it out: Putting CO2 in primary is completely unnecessary and might be harmful. At that stage, the yeast want oxygen. Once they convert over to anaerobic fermentation, oxygen is the enemy but the yeast is creating so much CO2, adding it is redundant. I haven't tested this and wouldn't hold to it if presented evidence to the contrary but I do believe the yeast scrounge up the oxygen when bottle conditioning - my beers have a very long shelf life I can't explain otherwise and since I've started sparging the bottling bucket (and secondary fermentor, if using one), oxidation flavors have been absent from my beers.
 
I've forgotten about bottled beer for a year and a half before. It tasted just fine. I'm sure nosy has bottles older than that.
 
My local brewery bottle conditions every ale they produce , I have asked if they purge bottles before filling and waiting on a reply .

One of their brews is the Extra Strong Vintage Ale produced most years that I've tasted 5 year old and was spectacular ! Lacking in hop character but still delicious
 
KenK said:
I actually did the bicarb/vinegar trick in the bottling bucket yesterday with my apa. Then I got to wondering if there's stray yeast in the vinegar that could have escaped into the bucket.
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So, did you actually put baking soda and vinegar in the bottling bucket? And left it there when you racked you beer in?That's not the sort of stuff you want in your finished beer.
If you insist on home-made CO2, put a little baking soda in a 2 liter plastic bottle, pour a little vinegar in, slip a tube over the top of the bottle and run the end down into the bucket. the CO2 will expand and produce enough pressure to push through the tube and into the bucket. Just make sure there's enough room in the bottle for the foam to expand and not go into the tube.
If you want to check to see how much CO2 you can produce, take a lit long match or long bic lighter and lower it gently into the bucket. Wherever it flickers out is where the CO2 blanket starts.
 
J A, I put a paper towel in the bottom of the pail and a cereal bowl on top of it. Then I added a couple of tsps of arm and hammer and a little vinegar. After all this nonsense I took the toweling and bowl out. In a couple of weeks I'll be drinking this batch so we'll see how it goes. As usual, thanks for your advice. I like the idea of the bottle and tubing but you guys have pretty much convinced me to quit futzing around with this -- there's probably more things that could go wrong than right fiddling around with unnecessary stuff like this. I think I'm overthinking this...
 
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jeffpn said:
I've forgotten about bottled beer for a year and a half before. It tasted just fine. I'm sure nosy has bottles older than that.
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Going on three years for some.
 
KenK said:
J A, I put a paper towel in the bottom of the pail and a cereal bowl on top of it. Then I added a couple of tsps of arm and hammer and a little vinegar. After all this nonsense I took the toweling and bowl out. In a couple of weeks I'll be drinking this batch so we'll see how it goes. As usual, thanks for your advice. I like the idea of the bottle and tubing but you guys have pretty much convinced me to quit futzing around with this -- there's probably more things that could go wrong than right fiddling around with unnecessary stuff like this. I think I'm overthinking this...
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Likely right: Sparging your vessels falls into the category of very advanced, very anal homebrewing. And I resemble (at least the latter of ) that remark.... As to the vinegar and baking soda trick, if you have a drilled stopper, a flask, a connector and some hose, you could do that trick and just run the CO2 from the flask into your vessel (in effect, making a very small, low-pressure carbon dioxide source).
 
KenK said:
I think I'm overthinking this...
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As the proud owner of a new obsession, that's your job. ;)

Brewing should be taken seriously and proper attention given to details and process, but people have been making and drinking good beer for a long, long time without doing half the things we routinely think of as absolutely mandatory.
Sure, there may be science involved, but it ain't rocket science. :rolleyes::)

Do real research, follow reasonable procedures, pay attention to the quality of your beer and keep progressing. Relax, have fun.
 
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Yeah...That, too ^^^
It's the homebrewers mantra.
 
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