Difference between Wheat malt and Dark Wheat malt besides color impact

[Enskede Brewery]

Hiya.

My first post here apart from my intro. I have been using the wheat malt in a recipe where the wheat primarily brings smoothness to the table, flavor wise. Maybe some caramell and toffee notes. However, I feel the wheat malt, and I am using Weyermann's wheat malt, is too discrete. It's wishy-washy. What I have done is to sub a bit of it with Carawheat, which is a crystal malt, and this helps a bit. But I can't really up the carawheat more without gettting into the area of cloying the flavors.

I was curious to try Dark Wheat malt and I was hoping to hear if anyone of you here have tried it? What I am hoping for is caramell, fruit, toffee, honey tones. You who has used Dark Wheat malt in the past, how would you describe its' flavor contribution, especially compared to normal wheat malt? Is there a big impact like when you use Munich malt instead of Pilsner malt?

/Pal

 

[Dave Y]

I’ve used midnight wheat a few times, for a subtle roast / coffee-esque flavor. I’m not sure I’d look for those flavor profiles you’re looking for in midnight wheat.

 

[Bigbre04]

I love midnight wheat. I also use flaked wheat and white wheat.

Not familiar with dark wheat.

if you are looking for more "wheaty" flavor you could try torrified wheat or adding some flaked wheat?

Also adding some aromatic, victory, etc. can enhance the "grainy" flavor.

post your recipe and we can help!

 

[Enskede Brewery]

I’ve used midnight wheat a few times, for a subtle roast / coffee-esque flavor. I’m not sure I’d look for those flavor profiles you’re looking for in midnight wheat.

I have never heard of it so I had to look it up. One of the LHBS actually have Briess so it's available to me. But I'm don't think such a roasted malt would go well in my recipe. I guess Midnight Wheat is anything but discrete, right?

 

[Enskede Brewery]

I love midnight wheat. I also use flaked wheat and white wheat.

Not familiar with dark wheat.

if you are looking for more "wheaty" flavor you could try torrified wheat or adding some flaked wheat?

Also adding some aromatic, victory, etc. can enhance the "grainy" flavor.

post your recipe and we can help!

Good suggestion about the flaked and torrified wheat. My malt bill already contains too much unmalted grains, however, torrified maize to be specific, so I am cautious about increasing it further. My Braumeister 20 is old and I worry about the 15 year old pump not being able to push the wort through the malt pipe with too much "gunk" in it.

The recipe:

Torrefied Maize	5,00​	60%​
Wheat malt	2,00​	24%​
Barley malt	1,00​	12%​
Carawheat	0,40​	5%​

So you see. It's a fairly simple recipe. Corn is the main flavor and sugar source, and the barley is there for it's diastatic power. The wheat is the primary flavor provider. My thought was to go half/half withe dark wheat malt and normal wheat malt. The second column is kilos, btw. I also use 200grams of rice hulls to prevent the clogging possibility.

I double mash this, so all of it is split in two mashes using the same wort.

 

[J A]

Good suggestion about the flaked and torrified wheat. My malt bill already contains too much unmalted grains, however, torrified maize to be specific, so I am cautious about increasing it further. My Braumeister 20 is old and I worry about the 15 year old pump not being able to push the wort through the malt pipe with too much "gunk" in it.

The recipe:

Torrefied Maize	5,00​	60%​
Wheat malt	2,00​	24%​
Barley malt	1,00​	12%​
Carawheat	0,40​	5%​

So you see. It's a fairly simple recipe. Corn is the main flavor and sugar source, and the barley is there for it's diastatic power. The wheat is the primary flavor provider. My thought was to go half/half withe dark wheat malt and normal wheat malt. The second column is kilos, btw. I also use 200grams of rice hulls to prevent the clogging possibility.

I double mash this, so all of it is split in two mashes using the same wort.

I can't imagine you'll have the diastatic power necessary to convert 60% corn. Have you used that much in the past with any success?

Regarding Dark Wheat, it should have a similar impact as Munich. For recipes that need color without too much in the way of roasty flavors, I use plenty of Munich and enhance the color and flavor with CaraMunich and CaraWheat. Like you, I don't like that cloying sweetness from too much Cara/Crystal malt. I find that CaraMunich seems a little cleaner than most malts in that color range but there's not an easy way to objectively measure that without brewing identical recipes to test the difference. I find, though, that a small amount of C60 can make a nice impact without getting the C-malt "aaack" factor. Malts like Special Roast and Special B seem to be more toasty/roasty/fruity with a smoother flavor than typical dark Cara/Crystal malts.

 

[J A]

I love midnight wheat. I also use flaked wheat and white wheat.

Not familiar with dark wheat.

if you are looking for more "wheaty" flavor you could try torrified wheat or adding some flaked wheat?

Also adding some aromatic, victory, etc. can enhance the "grainy" flavor.

post your recipe and we can help!

Victory is my go-to for mid-range color and toasty/grainy flavor. The Midnight Wheat is my choice for dark malt, as well. I've used Aromatic malt but it's really variable from brand to brand. For a lot of specialty malts, the Belgian malts seem to be really good.

 

[Enskede Brewery]

I can't imagine you'll have the diastatic power necessary to convert 60% corn. Have you used that much in the past with any success?

Regarding Dark Wheat, it should have a similar impact as Munich. For recipes that need color without too much in the way of roasty flavors, I use plenty of Munich and enhance the color and flavor with CaraMunich and CaraWheat. Like you, I don't like that cloying sweetness from too much Cara/Crystal malt. I find that CaraMunich seems a little cleaner than most malts in that color range but there's not an easy way to objectively measure that without brewing identical recipes to test the difference. I find, though, that a small amount of C60 can make a nice impact without getting the C-malt "aaack" factor. Malts like Special Roast and Special B seem to be more toasty/roasty/fruity with a smoother flavor than typical dark Cara/Crystal malts.

The barley malt I am using is Weyermann's Diastatic malt, 300dp I think. I've used the recipe several times without any problems with conversion. There's no need for enzymes with this malt. And I am using 12% too.

C60, I wonder if that's the same as CaraAmber - let me check. Yes it is. It's one of my favorites. I've used it in a lot of beers that call for crystal malts. I mainly use Weyermann's products. Here they are priced right and their quality is excellent. I use Crisp and Simpson's occasionally for british type of malts and Dingemans for some of the the Belgian specialty malts. Victory can be found here but quite pricey, I've never used it, but Dingeman's have a great Bisquit malt which I believe is similar to Victory.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I have a Porter where I like a little sweetness and a little roasty. The combination of regular Munich, C120, and Chocolate Malt work well for that.

 

[J A]

The barley malt I am using is Weyermann's Diastatic malt, 300dp I think. I've used the recipe several times without any problems with conversion. There's no need for enzymes with this malt. And I am using 12% too.

C60, I wonder if that's the same as CaraAmber - let me check. Yes it is. It's one of my favorites. I've used it in a lot of beers that call for crystal malts. I mainly use Weyermann's products. Here they are priced right and their quality is excellent. I use Crisp and Simpson's occasionally for british type of malts and Dingemans for some of the the Belgian specialty malts. Victory can be found here but quite pricey, I've never used it, but Dingeman's have a great Bisquit malt which I believe is similar to Victory.

Yes, Victory and Biscuit are pretty interchangable. I think the Biscuit may have a little more neutral crackery flavor and the Victory a little more toasty/nutty but probably splitting hairs. I used to keep both on hand and I still like the Biscuit for Belgian styles but the impact is probably indistinguishable one from the other.

 

[Bigbre04]

The barley malt I am using is Weyermann's Diastatic malt, 300dp I think. I've used the recipe several times without any problems with conversion. There's no need for enzymes with this malt. And I am using 12% too.

C60, I wonder if that's the same as CaraAmber - let me check. Yes it is. It's one of my favorites. I've used it in a lot of beers that call for crystal malts. I mainly use Weyermann's products. Here they are priced right and their quality is excellent. I use Crisp and Simpson's occasionally for british type of malts and Dingemans for some of the the Belgian specialty malts. Victory can be found here but quite pricey, I've never used it, but Dingeman's have a great Bisquit malt which I believe is similar to Victory.

Another really cool malt to consider and one of my favorites is Bestmalz Special X its between a crystal and roasted malt(136L).

In reference to the midnight wheat, it is fantastic for adding color without roasty/bitter black flavor. I have put a lb or 2 in golden lagers/ales and it adds a really intesting flavor onto the back end and just a touch of color. <1% of the total grain bill.

yep biscuit is similar to victory.

 

[Enskede Brewery]

Another really cool malt to consider and one of my favorites is Bestmalz Special X its between a crystal and roasted malt(136L).

In reference to the midnight wheat, it is fantastic for adding color without roasty/bitter black flavor. I have put a lb or 2 in golden lagers/ales and it adds a really intesting flavor onto the back end and just a touch of color. <1% of the total grain bill.

yep biscuit is similar to victory.

Special X seems to be Bestmalz' version of Special B? Slightly different flavor profile according to the description, less dried fruit but just as intensive. Sounds about right?

 

[Bigbre04]

Special X seems to be Bestmalz' version of Special B? Slightly different flavor profile according to the description, less dried fruit but just as intensive. Sounds about right?

I think they are similar, I tried to find a comparison online and could not seem to find one. The bestmalz is 136L.