BIAB Small Batches

[Hatchertiger]

I have been brewing for just under a year and brew 2 gallons at a time. Chose small batch brewing to learn the process and to try more styles of beer. Here is what I use for my mash tun http://www.homebrewstuff.com/2-gallon-mash-tun.html but I'm sure you can make your own. I converted a 2 gallon water cooler to a hot liquor tank and fly sparge with it. When sparging I cover the mash tun with an aluminum pie tin (high tech!) with holes punched in it. This disperses the water coming in from the hot liquor tank so that there is not channeling in the mash. Thus far it has worked well for what I have brewed, my favorite being a bourbon vanilla porter. I'm considering jumping up to 3 gallons with the same set up.

 

[The Green Man]

Your "liquoring back" process is widespread among commercial brewers. Lets them keep the tax man happy by keeping the ABV in line. Five liters is about one and a half gallons (a gallon is about 3.8 liters) and as mentioned, it's as much work as a full batch or even the 4.5 barrels (more of those confusing conventional units) I helped with a few days ago. There are a couple of things that happen when using concentrated boils: First your hop utilization goes down, you'll need a bit more but I think from your post you have this covered and second, your beer will be darker. By concentrating the wort, you're concentrating the sugars and amino acids that create melanoidins. But otherwise, I used that kind of procedure for quite some time (using three gallons of wort to produce five gallons of beer).

I'm doing 2.5 gallon batches for my Helles Projekt and, sometimes, to try out a new concept before having two cases of questionable beer to drink.

Thanks Nosybear. When you mention melanoidins, is that the same result as using melanoidin malt? So, I suppose what I'm asking is, are concentrated wort boils good for head retention? Kind of sounds like they should.

 

[Nosybear]

Thanks Nosybear. When you mention melanoidins, is that the same result as using melanoidin malt? So, I suppose what I'm asking is, are concentrated wort boils good for head retention? Kind of sounds like they should.

Melanoidins: Similar. The reactions are the same so you should get both color and flavor contributions from them. Head retention should be no impact from a concentrated boil. I never had a problem with it when I was doing concentrated boils using extract.

 

[Gledison]

I have been brewing small batches of 5 litres, which I think is 1 gallon plus something. It is a kind of a pain, but I really enjoy brew days, so it doesn't bother me. Plus, if it goes wrong I haven't 40 pints of naff beer to get through. When I'm more confident and competent I can scale up.
Trub does take up about 1litre of beer, so reckon on putting about 6 litres into the fermentor to get a full 5 litres bottled. That will also compensate for a couple of gravity readings (100ml a pop). I drink these as they are useful for monitoring taste changes, so I will keep using my hydrometer. I use about 5 grams of dried yeast which I rehydrate. Seems to work well. Not encountered issues with measuring and efficiency. Obviously, all 20 litre batch recipes have to be adjusted. I'm generally generous with the measurements though, especially with the hops. Because I use a fairly small boil kettle (aka pasta pot), I'm mid-experiment of boiling up a strong wort and adding chilled spring water to bring down temps and increase wort size in the fermentor. I think this is called 'liquoring back', as the OG gets weaker/goes backwards. I dry hop in the primary which worked great, but have had issues bottling from primary, so am about to use a bottling bucket. Good luck.

Hi there,
Im also doing 5 Liters Batches and im quite happy with it. As you said, i also planned extra 1,5 Liters due to trub loss in order to end up with 5 Liters of Beer. Im fermenting directly in the bottling bucket and didnt have its working fine. I´ve made a 10L bucket with a spigot jjust bellow the 2L mark. LAst Batch, i tested the cold Crash and it seems that the trub was a Little bit more compact but still in floculate form (not cement like). I could bottle the 5 Liters with no Problem having a relatively clear beer (i used Irish moos in the last boiling Minute).
Cheers

 

[The Green Man]

Hi there,
Im also doing 5 Liters Batches and im quite happy with it. As you said, i also planned extra 1,5 Liters due to trub loss in order to end up with 5 Liters of Beer. Im fermenting directly in the bottling bucket and didnt have its working fine. I´ve made a 10L bucket with a spigot jjust bellow the 2L mark. LAst Batch, i tested the cold Crash and it seems that the trub was a Little bit more compact but still in floculate form (not cement like). I could bottle the 5 Liters with no Problem having a relatively clear beer (i used Irish moos in the last boiling Minute).
Cheers

I suspect that my issue with bottling is because I'm boiling strong and adding quite a bit of cooled water into the fermentor to cool the wort down to pitching temps. I didn't have problems before I did this either. The mixing during transfer should sort this out. I use Irish Moss too, about 15 mins from the end. I take it you do a full volume boil, i.e the amount at the end of the boil is what goes into fermentor (if OG is ok)?

 

[Nosybear]

I suspect that my issue with bottling is because I'm boiling strong and adding quite a bit of cooled water into the fermentor to cool the wort down to pitching temps. I didn't have problems before I did this either. The mixing during transfer should sort this out. I use Irish Moss too, about 15 mins from the end. I take it you do a full volume boil, i.e the amount at the end of the boil is what goes into fermentor (if OG is ok)?

I don't see how that's a factor. Bottle conditioning relies on yeast in suspension working on the additional sugar you add, neither of which are affected by a concentrated boil. Issues with bottling from primary: Biggest one is sucking trub up with the racking cane or out the spigot, giving you "floaties" in your beer or haze. Again, neither of these are a function of a concentrated boil. I've started purging my bottling bucket with CO2 to keep oxygen out of the finished beer but that's a problem whether I rack to secondary or not.

 

[The Green Man]

I don't see how that's a factor. Bottle conditioning relies on yeast in suspension working on the additional sugar you add, neither of which are affected by a concentrated boil. Issues with bottling from primary: Biggest one is sucking trub up with the racking cane or out the spigot, giving you "floaties" in your beer or haze. Again, neither of these are a function of a concentrated boil. I've started purging my bottling bucket with CO2 to keep oxygen out of the finished beer but that's a problem whether I rack to secondary or not.

I had read somewhere that lighter liquid added to the primary ends up sitting on top, but you could well be right. I have seen said 'floaties' in two bottles. But my problem is that those two bottles were hazy and that tasted like they had been mashed with oats. The others have been crystal clear and bubbles but no real head, like they hadn't been mashed with oats. I thought using oats was supposed to make hazy beer with decent head retention and mouthfeel. This is why my suspicions are aroused that something isn't right. Have you used oats and had crystal clear beer with no head retention? Oats were about 5% of the grain bill. Is that just not enough? I am new to this, so I welcome any advice.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

Zel, A trick I used to use was using my oven

 

[Nosybear]

I had read somewhere that lighter liquid added to the primary ends up sitting on top, but you could well be right. I have seen said 'floaties' in two bottles. But my problem is that those two bottles were hazy and that tasted like they had been mashed with oats. The others have been crystal clear and bubbles but no real head, like they hadn't been mashed with oats. I thought using oats was supposed to make hazy beer with decent head retention and mouthfeel. This is why my suspicions are aroused that something isn't right. Have you used oats and had crystal clear beer with no head retention? Oats were about 5% of the grain bill. Is that just not enough? I am new to this, so I welcome any advice.

I wasn't suggesting that something wasn't right, just that the concentrated boil wasn't it. Fermentation would have mixed the water into the wort completely, so there wouldn't be stratification. The problem is likely that you steeped flaked oats. I was trying to see if you're doing extract but couldn't find the start of the thread. Flaked grains need to be mashed to convert starches so if you're doing extract batches, expect haze.

 

[The Green Man]

I wasn't suggesting that something wasn't right, just that the concentrated boil wasn't it. Fermentation would have mixed the water into the wort completely, so there wouldn't be stratification. The problem is likely that you steeped flaked oats. I was trying to see if you're doing extract but couldn't find the start of the thread. Flaked grains need to be mashed to convert starches so if you're doing extract batches, expect haze.

Cheers Nosybear. I'm doing BIAB with grain only. I did mash the flaked oats with the rest of the grist/grain. I thought this ought to cause haze. Is that right?

 

[Nosybear]

Cheers Nosybear. I'm doing BIAB with grain only. I did mash the flaked oats with the rest of the grist/grain. I thought this ought to cause haze. Is that right?

It shouldn't. I've brewed with unmalted oats before and got clear beer. Your problem is a bit of a conundrum, I was reaching a bit for an explanation.

 

[The Green Man]

It shouldn't. I've brewed with unmalted oats before and got clear beer. Your problem is a bit of a conundrum, I was reaching a bit for an explanation.

If unmalted oats don't necessarily cause haze, then my issue could simply be due trub. I'll rack to secondary and be more careful with bottle washing and see what happens. Thanks for the input.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Nosey will be able to confirm this better but sometimes after bottling a beer it will look crystal clear in the cellar then wack her in the fridge and it will throw a thick protine haze on you. A good two week fridge condition should help with this haze. I use geletin in the keg to try and clear this problem. I hope I haven't led this thread off track. Anyhow good luck.

FWIW I'm drinking my pils ATM with some considerable haze from what I think is my ultra fine mill but I'm confident another 2 weeks at 3c will clear it for me fingers crossed lol.

 

[BoomerBrian]

If unmalted oats don't necessarily cause haze, then my issue could simply be due trub. I'll rack to secondary and be more careful with bottle washing and see what happens. Thanks for the input.

There was a lot of discussions about oats and haze with the NEIPA craze. Latest experiments I have seen back up Nosybear's statement. Oats aren't causing the haze.

 

[Nosybear]

Nosey will be able to confirm this better but sometimes after bottling a beer it will look crystal clear in the cellar then wack her in the fridge and it will throw a thick protine haze on you. A good two week fridge condition should help with this haze. I use geletin in the keg to try and clear this problem. I hope I haven't led this thread off track. Anyhow good luck.

FWIW I'm drinking my pils ATM with some considerable haze from what I think is my ultra fine mill but I'm confident another 2 weeks at 3c will clear it for me fingers crossed lol.

If it's hazing up when you chill it, it's protein and tannins - polyphenols - forming the haze. Gelatin will clear it. If it's there when it's warm, it's some other kind of haze, likely starch. Polyvinyl whatever will clear that up somewhat but the best defense against that is get good conversion in your mash.

 

[The Green Man]

If it's hazing up when you chill it, it's protein and tannins - polyphenols - forming the haze. Gelatin will clear it. If it's there when it's warm, it's some other kind of haze, likely starch. Polyvinyl whatever will clear that up somewhat but the best defense against that is get good conversion in your mash.

This is really useful and interesting. The author of the book that kind of inspired me to get into brewing mentions oats being the cause of haze. That's why I'd thought that. But, my mash temps weren't constant. Since I've used the strike temp calculator on here the mash temp been bang on...and no haze. Voila! I'll rack to secondary this time, just to see if it's better anyway. Cheers fellas...assuming you are all fellas...

 

[Yooper]

This is really useful and interesting. The author of the book that kind of inspired me to get into brewing mentions oats being the cause of haze. That's why I'd thought that. But, my mash temps weren't constant. Since I've used the strike temp calculator on here the mash temp been bang on...and no haze. Voila! I'll rack to secondary this time, just to see if it's better anyway. Cheers fellas...assuming you are all fellas...

Well, not ALL of us are fellas....................

I wrote an article a long time about about beer clarity, for homebrewtalk.com. It's here, if you're interested: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/clear-wort-clear-beer.html It's not specific to BIAB, but the same principles would apply.

 

[Benman]

I'm brewing small batches, started 8 months ago and thought i'll start small and move to 5 Gallon batches.
but i fell in love with the small batches, i love making different beers and it keeps me experimental all the time.
my best tip for you is to always plan ahead your brewing otherwise it gets expensive.
i use only dry yeast, i do 3-4 batches of 1G with one pack and plan my recipe according to the yeast i have in hand.
i also plan using hops carefully, i don't like to keep them too long as they compromise over time even if you keep them sealed in the fridge.
so usually I'm planing 2-4 batches ahead - It saves a lot of money!

 

[Nosybear]

I'm brewing small batches, started 8 months ago and thought i'll start small and move to 5 Gallon batches.
but i fell in love with the small batches, i love making different beers and it keeps me experimental all the time.
my best tip for you is to always plan ahead your brewing otherwise it gets expensive.
i use only dry yeast, i do 3-4 batches of 1G with one pack and plan my recipe according to the yeast i have in hand.
i also plan using hops carefully, i don't like to keep them too long as they compromise over time even if you keep them sealed in the fridge.
so usually I'm planing 2-4 batches ahead - It saves a lot of money!

I've been doing small batches of the same beer as a learning experience. It's worth doing - you really start to realize what a change to process does if it's to exactly the same beer. And I'm doing it with a lager so the biggest variables are under control.

 

[The Green Man]

I'm brewing small batches, started 8 months ago and thought i'll start small and move to 5 Gallon batches.
but i fell in love with the small batches, i love making different beers and it keeps me experimental all the time.
my best tip for you is to always plan ahead your brewing otherwise it gets expensive.
i use only dry yeast, i do 3-4 batches of 1G with one pack and plan my recipe according to the yeast i have in hand.
i also plan using hops carefully, i don't like to keep them too long as they compromise over time even if you keep them sealed in the fridge.
so usually I'm planing 2-4 batches ahead - It saves a lot of money!

I hear you Benman. I also plan a couple of batches ahead and bottle the last batch during the mash or boil of the next batch. Uses time better. Plus, I've always got something new to look forward to. Like you say it makes the best use of yeast and hops too. Only thing is, I'm drinking the whole batch before it's reached its best...