Belgian Blonde

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

if using pellet hops like I do I just put them in a freezer baggies and crush with a hammer into a powder then stir into the water even before the DME is added while heating up

 

[AsharaDayne]

if using pellet hops like I do I just put them in a freezer baggies and crush with a hammer into a powder then stir into the water even before the DME is added while heating up

I don't think you need to powder pellets, they break up real quick once added to wort (or water I guess).
So do you then keep them at a given temperature for a while or just let the wort heat up normal?

 

[AsharaDayne]

BTW...you really, really should be steeping some grains. You're missing out on half the beer and it's remedied by just steeping a half pound of specialty grain in the water before you add the DME. Easily the biggest improvement for the least investment and input of anything else you'll do.

I've given this some thought and I'm wondering how far DME + steeping grains can go. In particular, is it possible to brew a red ale / red IPA with this technique? I saw a malt called Carared on my supplier's website, got me wondering... Pale ale DME as a base, some darker extract to bring in color, and Carared steeped, something like that?

 

[jmcnamara]

I've given this some thought and I'm wondering how far DME + steeping grains can go. In particular, is it possible to brew a red ale / red IPA with this technique? I saw a malt called Carared on my supplier's website, got me wondering... Pale ale DME as a base, some darker extract to bring in color, and Carared steeped, something like that?

Can't speak to that particular style, but you've got the general idea for sure

 

[J A]

Short answer...yes!
You can do just about any style and do it well with basic steeped grain/extract brewing.

 

[AsharaDayne]

Short answer...yes!
You can do just about any style and do it well with basic steeped grain/extract brewing.

Awesome! A whole new learning curve

 

[AsharaDayne]

The ale tested at approx. 1.018 on two measures with a 3 day interval a little over a week ago, but i was going to give it at least another 2 weeks, seeing how S-33 likes to take its time. Now all of a sudden the airlock's gurgling again.

 

[J A]

Now all of a sudden the airlock's gurgling again.

Yep! I did a Belgian Pale Ale with S-33 and I noticed that just before I crashed it there seemed to be more activity indicating and that it might go again. After 7 days in temp control to hold below 70 I put it in a water bath to keep the temp down and then I had the carboy in the garage where the temp is reaching 80. I think it would have gone again, but I've been getting some wild yeast colonies working and I didn't trust it to stay clean, even in a carboy. Besides for a Belgian Pale, overattenuation can be problematic - at 76% attenuation, 1.012 FG and just over 5% ABV, it's dead on for style and since I brewed for competition, I want to hold it back a little.

I have a Saison on T-58 that's gone down to .006 after 2 weeks (87% attenuation) and when I racked to a smaller carboy, it started bubbling again (though not energetically). I don't mind it going a little further, but I hope it's not my wild colony munching on dextrins. It's a really fantastic beer so far and if it seems to settle down so I can crash it tomorrow, I think it has a decent chance of placing very well, even though Saison is a pretty competitive category. Fingers crossed.

 

[AsharaDayne]

wow 87% with T-58? with just malt? that's some high attenuation

I was also worrying about extraneous eaters, but since I don't know what I could do about it, I think I'll just let things run their course.
1.018 was a bit high for my taste anyway.

How long did your S-33 BPA sit before you crashed it?

 

[J A]

wow 87% with T-58? with just malt? that's some high attenuation

I was also worrying about extraneous eaters, but since I don't know what I could do about it, I think I'll just let things run their course.
1.018 was a bit high for my taste anyway.

How long did your S-33 BPA sit before you crashed it?

Yeah...I was suspicious of the T-58 fermenting that far without the help of some unruly neighbors but I did get 82 % out of a smaller version of this beer on a first pitch T-58. This grist was 90% base malt, mashed low and slow and a 5 ounces of candi-sugar in the primary. It seems to have stopped altogether and dropped clear now which is a good sign and the FG has settled at .006. Dodged a wild-yeast bullet.

The BPA went exactly 3 weeks. It might be a better beer if I had tried to let it go a little further but mid-70's seems fine for that yeast. And I'm on a tight schedule to keg and package these Belgians by entry drop-off deadline. If you feel like it's stuck or it's dropped clear, rouse it and see what happens. Most likely there's a lack of oxygen this late in the brew, but you might get something out of it. If you can keep it clean, it should definitely go below .018.
If you get desperate you can re-krausen with a quart of active starter of S-33 or another yeast.

 

[AsharaDayne]

Fingers crossed for the competition

Just took a reading and it's dropped to a tad under 1.012. Probably almost at final gravity. And closer to what I imagined for this recipe what with all that sugar.
Smells a little rough perhaps, but nothing untoward. In the fridge you go, young lady, and I'll give you a sip later.

 

[AsharaDayne]

Well it's rather bitter, perhaps too much so for style, but also very pleasant. I think it will turn out very nice.

 

[KC]

Did the recipe calculator give you 26 IBU for the FWH addition, or did you enter hops as a 30 minute boil addition?

 

[J A]

First Wort Hops are definitely calculated low. To me the bitterness is higher than the IBUs would suggest. I've had the most success calculating IBUs for hops as if they're 60 minute boil but adding to the pot at collection/sparge.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I guess it really depends on when you define first wort, cold water, at mash temps or after mashout sparging, big difference

 

[J A]

I guess it really depends on when you define first wort, cold water, at mash temps or after mashout sparging, big difference

This is from the Brewer's Friend Blog on First Wort Hopping as referenced in the FAQ section:

"First wort hopping is the method by which a hop addition is added to the boil kettle prior to lautering your grain bed. This allows the hop oils to steep in the 150F-160F wort during the lauter and then be boiled for the entire duration of the boil. There are complex reactions occurring in the hop oils during this low temperature steeping that are not well understood, but the effect is unmistakable. FIG 1."

I understand FWH to be kettle addition as lauter/collection/sparge commences. This must be the method that the calculator is set up to take into account. For Extract brewing, I'm not sure how you'd define it exactly since it's a method of hopping that developed with traditional all-grain brewing. Or how you'd attempt to calculate IBUs based on some of the additions you describe.

 

[GFHomebrew]

If i was going to FWH an extract batch id mix in dme LME what ever sugars heat it to 80c hold for 10-20 mins then boil as per usual.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

yeah during extract I add the hops to the cold water along with the dme, I just did that the other day, otherwise like normal its after hot break, it really depends on if you hold your steeping grains at a certain temp or just raise from 0 to 165 and pull them out, everyone brews a little different

 

[GFHomebrew]

I want to do a brew next just FWH and flame out/whirlpool hops see what sorta bitterness and flavour contributions i get.

 

[J A]

Did a workshop series brew this evening that's just a basic small 60 minute addition (Magnum) and then specific hop combo at flame out. My version is Amarillo and Simcoe...it smelled heavenly going into the fermenter. Will be dry-hopped with the same combo.
I'd like to try the same thing with a FWH of Columbus.