any K-97 expereince?

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

Been to Dry Dock many times but I'm on the west side of town between red rocks and green mountain so I don't get over there very often anymore.That used to be my LHBS of choice.

I agree with everything you mentioned. Kolsch is one of my favorite styles so I have experimented quite a bit. Don't mean to derail the thread. I will need to give K97 a shot again.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I think 029 is great yeast and have used it quite a lot. In my opinion it's almost too clean which is why I prefer WY2565. A local brewery makes a great kolsch and gave me some fermentation tips which has been very helpful.

Would you care to share those fermentation tips there.

 

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

Would you care to share those fermentation tips there.

I will have to look it up. Keep in mind this is for WY2565. I believe they recommended 58F for 48 hours then bump up to 63F. I will see what I can find.

Found it:
"The yeast we use for our Kolsch is BSI W117, which I believe is equivalent to Wyeast 2565. We ferment at 59 F for 72 hours then let it free rise to 64 F. We will let it sit on the yeast longer than most of our beer - 7 days after terminal gravity is reached. It is then crashed to 32 F in the fermenter for a minimum of 4 days. Transferred to the bright tank, and lagered at 32 F for a minimum of 7 days"

This is obviously only one piece to the puzzle as I have no idea about their grain, mash, hops, etc...

 

[Nosybear]

I will have to look it up. Keep in mind this is for WY2565. I believe they recommended 58F for 48 hours then bump up to 63F. I will see what I can find.

Found it:
"The yeast we use for our Kolsch is BSI W117, which I believe is equivalent to Wyeast 2565. We ferment at 59 F for 72 hours then let it free rise to 64 F. We will let it sit on the yeast longer than most of our beer - 7 days after terminal gravity is reached. It is then crashed to 32 F in the fermenter for a minimum of 4 days. Transferred to the bright tank, and lagered at 32 F for a minimum of 7 days"

This is obviously only one piece to the puzzle as I have no idea about their grain, mash, hops, etc...

Not far off the fermentation regime I use for my Koelsch's. Cool, then let it go, then lager for about a month. Should work for any Koelsch-style yeast.

 

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

Yes. My main point is that profile with that yeast makes my favorite kolsch. That same profile with 029 will give you a very different beer (in my experience). Honestly for a different thread since it has nothing to do with k97. Sorry.

 

[J A]

Not far off the fermentation regime I use for my Koelsch's. Cool, then let it go, then lager for about a month. Should work for any Koelsch-style yeast.

Ditto...And given that, I should really try some of the other yeasts using the same approach. I happen to like the particular esters that K-97 puts out so I haven't been in a hurry to shop around.
Heck...I don't do much different with my usual Lager fermentation with S-23 or 34/70. I get a little fruitiness in those fermentation but it seems to lager out more completely than the K-97 beers.

 

[Nosybear]

Sounds like an assignment for a homebrew club.... And I happen to know an education chair.... Anyone mind if I modify the schedule slightly: 58 degrees for 48 hours, then free-rise to 64 degrees. One wort, split into three fermentors, fermented the same way.

 

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

Sounds like an assignment for a homebrew club.... And I happen to know an education chair.... Anyone mind if I modify the schedule slightly: 58 degrees for 48 hours, then free-rise to 64 degrees. One wort, split into three fermentors, fermented the same way.

Such a great idea! So 2565, 029, and K97 in each fermenter? Does you club meet at dry dock?

 

[Nosybear]

Such a great idea! So 2565, 029, and K97 in each fermenter? Does you club meet at dry dock?

We do - Aurora City Brew Club, meet every first Sunday. Except for this month: We're at Bent Barley in Southlands Mall. We're doing pretty good: We're finalists in Melvin's Boil Rumble this year!

 

[Ward Chillington]

"The yeast we use for our Kolsch is BSI W117, which I believe is equivalent to Wyeast 2565. We ferment at 59 F for 72 hours then let it free rise to 64 F. We will let it sit on the yeast longer than most of our beer - 7 days after terminal gravity is reached. It is then crashed to 32 F in the fermenter for a minimum of 4 days. Transferred to the bright tank, and lagered at 32 F for a minimum of 7 days"

Iliff, thanks for this as this routine is not the best described part of most of the Kolsch recipes I'm reading. Check me here to make sure I have this right... you have the brew on the yeast in the primary for 11 (7 and 4) days after reaching FG then rack it into a secondary for at least another week then bottle or keg??

 

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

Iliff, thanks for this as this routine is not the best described part of most of the Kolsch recipes I'm reading. Check me here to make sure I have this right... you have the brew on the yeast in the primary for 11 (7 and 4) days after reaching FG then rack it into a secondary for at least another week then bottle or keg??

I personally was really only interested in the temps before reaching FG.

I'm reading it as they let it sit at 64F for 7 days after FG has been reached, cold crash to 32F in the fermenter for 4 days, then transfer and let it sit at 32F for and additional 7 days.

I don't secondary so I just transfer directly to keg after cold crashing and let it do it's thing while carbing.

Will you please post your impressions of K97 when the time is right?

 

[Ward Chillington]

Thanks Iliff and will do.

The recipe I am using from Brooklyn Beer Shop's book of small batches instructs to leave things in the primary for 3 weeks at 55° then move to a secondary for another 3 weeks at 32-40°. That first cycle seems like you are gonna pick up some serious funk sitting on that yeast for so long.

 

[J A]

Thanks Iliff and will do.

The recipe I am using from Brooklyn Beer Shop's book of small batches instructs to leave things in the primary for 3 weeks at 55° then move to a secondary for another 3 weeks at 32-40°. That first cycle seems like you are gonna pick up some serious funk sitting on that yeast for so long.

At that temperature, the yeast acts relatively slowly and keeps a firm krausen throughout the time. It acts very thoroughly but it definitely gets methodical at temps below 60 degrees.

 

[Ward Chillington]

Thanks J A That's pretty much what I am observing and a week later now I have to make a decision to bump up the temp to give the batch a diacetyl rest and rack to a secondary to get it off the yeast cake then give it a 3 week lagering at around 40° . Whaddayathink?

 

[J A]

Thanks J A That's pretty much what I am observing and a week later now I have to make a decision to bump up the temp to give the batch a diacetyl rest and rack to a secondary to get it off the yeast cake then give it a 3 week lagering at around 40° . Whaddayathink?

I don't think that diacetyl is a big problem with this yeast but I always raise substantially to increase attenuation. It seems like it really likes warm temperatures to finish out the last few points. My current batch got ramped up relatively quickly because I need to clear my half-barrel fermenter for sure in under 3 weeks if possible. As it stands, it's pretty much done in 2 weeks because I started ramping after a week of fermentation and it's looking good. I'll leave it for another few days at 68 and then crash it to harvest yeast.
If you've got the attenuation you need, maybe a short rest at 65-68 couldn't hurt, but I think it'd be just for insurance.

 

[Nosybear]

I don't think that diacetyl is a big problem with this yeast but I always raise substantially to increase attenuation. It seems like it really likes warm temperatures to finish out the last few points. My current batch got ramped up relatively quickly because I need to clear my half-barrel fermenter for sure in under 3 weeks if possible. As it stands, it's pretty much done in 2 weeks because I started ramping after a week of fermentation and it's looking good. I'll leave it for another few days at 68 and then crash it to harvest yeast.
If you've got the attenuation you need, maybe a short rest at 65-68 couldn't hurt, but I think it'd be just for insurance.

If nothing else, raising the temperature at the end of fermentation may give you a slightly drier beer.

 

[jimros65]

Hello,
i will try i new recipe for a "hoppy" Kolsch and i need your opinion.

I need a help for yeast!
Dry K97 or Wyeast 2565, or some think new, for fruit / malty flavor and aroma?
I prepare something between a Lager and Ale flavor.!
I like the little dry & malty of the lager yeast but I don't like the strong smell & flavor or tart, of a traditional Lager yeast.

I will ferm at 60F for 3 - 4 days then at 64F for 4 days.
At 64F will start the Dry hop for 4 days and then drop down at 40F for 30 days.

The grain bill well be between an Lager / Pilsner and Ale. A hybrid Kolsch.

The grain bill well be:
70% Pilsner / 15% Vienna / 15% Pale - Crystal - Biscuit
21 IBU (15 IBU at 60' - 2 IBU at 14' & 4 IBU at the end, for 30' whirlpool)


The hops are Triskel for traditional flavor and aroma & Endeavour for aroma & fruitiness.
65% Triskel & 35% Endeavour


You help?

Thank's
Dimitris

 

[Nosybear]

Either of them will work. For a Koelsch, I'd go with a Koelsch-specific yeast and K-97 isn't that. It's a great yeast for German ales and you could use it. A note on your grain bill: The Crystal/Biscuit idea is plain wrong for the style. The Pilsner/Vienna blend will work just fine.

 

[Iliff Avenue Brewhouse]

2565 all the way.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Dry K97 or Wyeast 2565, or some think new, for fruit / malty flavor and aroma?
I prepare something between a Lager and Ale flavor.!

I may be the odd one out on this one, but Wyeast 1007 is the best Kolsch yeast I have ever used. It's very clean and only slightly fruity and vinous, with a nice crisp finish. It's best at 55-58F for primary fermentation.

People get the wrong idea about the style, they believe they should be fruity. But examples from Germany are not fruity, there is a very slight fruitiness, which is different then what you get from a lager yeast like 34/70 or WLP830. People often mistake a good Kolsch for a lager. It should be moderately malty, have a firm but restrained bitterness, slight noble hop on the nose and flavor, with a nice crisp dry finish. The fruitiness has often been described as "implied".