How does the brewing process for a lager differ from that of an ale?

[Meaulnes]

So far I have mostly brewed ales. I am brewing my first lager right now.
I usually use a CO2 reabsorption protection device during the cold crash which consists of a 20 liter bladder that recovers the CO2 from fermentation.

In practice I never open the fermenter from pitching to bottling (I do not use a keg).
I only open it for the last bottles when the bladder is completely empty.

As for a lager I ask myself the following questions:
- Can I continue this practice?
- If so should I bottle right after the cold crash and at what temperature?
- After priming (which I do bottle by bottle with a syrup dispenser) and bottling, at what temperature should I carbonate?
- Are the steps I described above the right ones?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I went through this thinking process not all that long ago. I think you are better off kegging a lager. I bought my regulator after someone gave me a Corny keg. I am of the opinion that the sediment in a bottle wouldn't be ideal for a lager. If you were going to do it in the bottle, I would probably let it carbonate first like an ale at normal fermentation temperature for your yeast (maybe 62 for a lager yeast at D rest temps?)and then cold crash it for lagering. In other words, bottle before the cold crash so you can carbonate in a normal period of time.
I'm sure others will disagree.

 

[Minbari]

Other than fermentation temp, and a possible D rest, there is no difference. You can lager an ale, same as a lager beer.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

- Can I continue this practice?

Yes. It would be better to ferment in a vessel that could take pressure so that when you crash cool it it never takes in any atmosphere, but the method works better than sucking in air.

- If so should I bottle right after the cold crash and at what temperature?

A cold crash will help drop out some unwanted proteins, hops and excess yeast. After a week or so at 1-2C you could botte it. You could bottle it prior to crash cooling, but a lot of yeast and what not would be in the bottle. Too much yeast can lead to some nasty flavors over time. A little is good and acts as a anti-oxidant, too much is bad and over time to taste meaty and metallic if it autolyses.

- After priming (which I do bottle by bottle with a syrup dispenser) and bottling, at what temperature should I carbonate?

@ 20C. Leave them for a couple of weeks, cool one down and test it for carbonation level. If it seems good, cool the whole batch down to 0-2C for 2-4 weeks to lager it. Lagering in bottles works, the beer should be very clear and may even be brilliant. Just like any bottle condition beer, you will have to pour it carefully to avoid the sediment.

- Are the steps I described above the right ones?

It's a good start. As you gain more experience you will be able to modify the process to make it easier and still have excellent beer.

You're not too far from Lourdes, I hope to go there one day. Good luck and happy brewing!

 

[Meaulnes]

I went through this thinking process not all that long ago. I think you are better off kegging a lager. I bought my regulator after someone gave me a Corny keg. I am of the opinion that the sediment in a bottle wouldn't be ideal for a lager. If you were going to do it in the bottle, I would probably let it carbonate first like an ale at normal fermentation temperature for your yeast (maybe 62 for a lager yeast at D rest temps?)and then cold crash it for lagering. In other words, bottle before the cold crash so you can carbonate in a normal period of time.
I'm sure others will disagree.

Thank you for your comment. I am afraid I don't drink enough beer (one each 2 days) to keg my beer, therefore bottling is nearly a must-have for me.
As for the bottling, doing cold crash after seems to me a bit risky in terms of clarity.

 

[Meaulnes]

Yes. It would be better to ferment in a vessel that could take pressure so that when you crash cool it it never takes in any atmosphere, but the method works better than sucking in air.

A cold crash will help drop out some unwanted proteins, hops and excess yeast. After a week or so at 1-2C you could botte it. You could bottle it prior to crash cooling, but a lot of yeast and what not would be in the bottle. Too much yeast can lead to some nasty flavors over time. A little is good and acts as a anti-oxidant, too much is bad and over time to taste meaty and metallic if it autolyses.

@ 20C. Leave them for a couple of weeks, cool one down and test it for carbonation level. If it seems good, cool the whole batch down to 0-2C for 2-4 weeks to lager it. Lagering in bottles works, the beer should be very clear and may even be brilliant. Just like any bottle condition beer, you will have to pour it carefully to avoid the sediment.

It's a good start. As you gain more experience you will be able to modify the process to make it easier and still have excellent beer.

You're not too far from Lourdes, I hope to go there one day. Good luck and happy brewing!

Thank you for your accurate and relevant comment and for your encouragement. It reassures me and corresponds to my own views.
BTW you seem to know my country. Yes, not far from Lourdes, a pretty place and more for religious people.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Thank you for your comment. I am afraid I don't drink enough beer (one each 2 days) to keg my beer, therefore bottling is nearly a must-have for me.
As for the bottling, doing cold crash after seems to me a bit risky in terms of clarity.

It keeps. I do 5-gallon batches, and with the exception of the holidays and taking one or two up to the breweries, I drink most of it myself. It is normally only one with dinner during the week, and maybe a little more that on Friday LOL. That is why I don't brew as much as some of the others on the forum. The other thing I like out of the keg is a 1/2 pour. If I just feel like a small one, it works.
It is also a HELL of a lot easier to transfer than bottling.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

Mashing, brewing, fermenting and kegging/bottling are the same for Ales and Lagers. The only difference would be that Lagers really have two parts to fermentation. The first phase is normal active fermentation and the second part lagering, which is basically an extended slow fermentation at near-freezing temperatures. You can lager in the fermentor or kegs or bottles. But I think it's better to lager in the fermentation vessel to keep trub out of the bottles. But if you need your fermenter for your next beer, then lager in bottles.

 

[Meaulnes]

It keeps. I do 5-gallon batches, and with the exception of the holidays and taking one or two up to the breweries, I drink most of it myself. It is normally only one with dinner during the week, and maybe a little more that on Friday LOL. That is why I don't brew as much as some of the others on the forum. The other thing I like out of the keg is a 1/2 pour. If I just feel like a small one, it works.
It is also a HELL of a lot easier to transfer than bottling.

Thank you for your comment.I never really thought about it because I am very used to bottles. I wonder if maintaining the equipment in acceptable hygienic conditions is not an additional constraint. It is true that being able to take a small shot would be perfect for my wife who only drinks occasionally. Another advantage that I see in bottles is that I can offer them to my friends when I feel like it.I will still look into the question because I have absolutely no idea what equipment we need.

 

[Zambi]

If you want to check kegging and are not sure or not wanting to spend a lot of money, then check out oxebar kegs.
I got 8 litre ones, but it seems 4 and 20 litre ones are now available as well.
I like the 8 litre size as I make small batches

 

[Meaulnes]

If you want to check kegging and are not sure or not wanting to spend a lot of money, then check out oxebar kegs.
I got 8 litre ones, but it seems 4 and 20 litre ones are now available as well.
I like the 8 litre size as I make small batches

Assuming I draw a glass of beer every two days, the tap that has been soiled by the beer will not be cleaned. Doesn't this risk creating hygiene problems and rancid tastes.
I was a bartender in my youth and I remember the bad smells from the taps despite the fact that they would not stop working.

 

[Sandy Feet]

A picnic tap in the refrigerator isn't going to cause you too much problems. You clean the lines when the beer runs out. You keep a bottle of Star San on top of the refrigerator (leftovers from cleaning the keg) and use it to clean the inside of the refrigerator or whatever else needs it.
I don't have much room above the Corney Keg in the fridge, so my mehod of bottling is a PITA. You can get an quick connect adapter for a PET bottle on Amazon. You fill the bottle about 1/2 way from the keg, squeeze to get the O2 out, go 20PSI with the regulator CO2, shake like hell a few times, and disconnect the CO2 from the adapter. Let the PET bottle sit for a few hours or overnight.

 

[Zambi]

Assuming I draw a glass of beer every two days, the tap that has been soiled by the beer will not be cleaned. Doesn't this risk creating hygiene problems and rancid tastes.
I was a bartender in my youth and I remember the bad smells from the taps despite the fact that they would not stop working.

I haven't noticed any off flavours.
There's not much difference between the beer sitting in the line or in the keg, at least none that I can think off.
It's all under pressure and no oxygen can come in.

 

[Meaulnes]

I haven't noticed any off flavours.
There's not much difference between the beer sitting in the line or in the keg, at least none that I can think off.
It's all under pressure and no oxygen can come in.

I was only thinking of the last centimeters just after the tap that are always exposed to ambient air and prone to contamination.

 

[Donoroto]

I was only thinking of the last centimeters just after the tap that are always exposed to ambient air and prone to contamination.

I use only kegs, and I keep them in their own refrigerator. The picnic taps that I use only get cleaned when the keg gets emptied. I have beer that has been in there for over a year and it is still perfectly fine. Of course, some styles don’t age well, like an IPA, but my brown ale and Oktoberfest beers are very happy to sit there.

 

[Zambi]

I was only thinking of the last centimeters just after the tap that are always exposed to ambient air and prone to contamination.

I use a picnic tap.
There's maybe 0.5 cm after the "close off" bit and that drips out in my glass.
If you are scared, you could maybe use a bit of cloth, dry it and spray with star san, but it really is not necessary

 

[Brew Cat]

I was only thinking of the last centimeters just after the tap that are always exposed to ambient air and prone to contamination.

They have little caps with brushes you stick in the faucet nozzle. I used those before.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

I was only thinking of the last centimeters just after the tap that are always exposed to ambient air and prone to contamination.

I had the same concern when I switched to kegging. Another concern was the frustration of many homebrewers struggling with getting the correct beer line length and diameter to avoid foaming or flat beer. So I went with this item (works great):

There are other similar products that attach directly to the keg. So everything is kept cold. No spoilage and no bugs looking for some free beer.

 

[Zambi]

I had the same concern when I switched to kegging. Another concern was the frustration of many homebrewers struggling with getting the correct beer line length and diameter to avoid foaming or flat beer. So I went with this item (works great):
View attachment 31195
There are other similar products that attach directly to the keg. So everything is kept cold. No spoilage and no bugs looking for some free beer.

I got the nukatap mini on my wish list

 

[Bigbre04]

Other than fermentation temp, and a possible D rest, there is no difference. You can lager an ale, same as a lager beer.

I ferment my Golden lager(best seller by far) with Apex Munich yeast at 64F. Had a BJCP judge comment on how clean it was and would not have been disappointed to drink it in Germany.

No Deacetyl rest, 10 days fermentation and no actual lagering time(other then time in the cooler). Packed 8 kegs this morning that were crystal clear. its on draft right now!

Alot of big breweries run yeasts at non-normal temps. Cold fermented Chico is an easy sub for a lager yeast in a pinch and warm fermented lager yeast is still quick and clean.