I got a place I usually order from and order enough to get free shipping. What is 'cheap' to you. Is $1.19/lb cheap?
100% Oatmeal beer.
- Thread starter coreyman
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I got a place I usually order from and order enough to get free shipping. What is 'cheap' to you. Is $1.19/lb cheap?
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Sounds about right. How many pounds of oatmeal were you planning to use? I'm spitballing about 2 pounds for that much oats.
I ordered 4lb rice hulls along with some base grains and DME for making yeast starter so I could get free shipping
I'm reading I only need to use 5% of the total grain bill maximum in rice hulls, so that puts me at about 3/4lb.
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I'd go higher: The 5% assumes barley in the mix and barley provides its own hulls. I'd go to 10% for a 100% oatmeal beer. More is not going to hurt.I ordered 4lb rice hulls along with some base grains and DME for making yeast starter so I could get free shipping
I'm reading I only need to use 5% of the total grain bill maximum in rice hulls, so that puts me at about 3/4lb.
Well this ended up going pretty bad. I have almost 3/4 6 gal fermentor full of gum and the top 1/4 is actual usable liquid. The gravity only has about 2.1% alcohol potential. I attribute this mainly to the brew in a bag method I used. After this experiment I'm completely done with the brew in a bag method and going to start mashing/sparging in a completely different vessel from my boil kettle.
Other than this extreme case for the grist, where else has BIAB failed you? I'm just curious, since for my brewing/ life conditions it's been pretty good to me
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There's a couple things I might suggest for if you decide to try again, based on my experiences with this recipe:
- As long as you're mail ordering grains and things, you should definitely try to get a a hold of some malted oats; not only do they have husks to help with the draining (though note that golden naked oats are malted and do not have husks), but the malted oats I've been working with (brand unknown from lhbs) are well enough modified that a beta-glucan rest proved unnecessary.
- If you're just using alpha amylase, you should definitely be using something like glucoamylase as well; using alpha amylase on it's own may be one of the reasons you had such poor efficiency. Keep in mind that glucoamylase denatures rapidly at a lower temperature than alpha amyalse (or beta amyalse for that matter), at above 140 if I remember right, so a two step mash might be helpful. Dough in at alpha amylase temperatures (150 for the LD Carlson stuff, but may be different depending on the source of your enzymes), let it convert for a while, and then stir to bring the temperature down to ~140 before adding the glucoamylase and letting rest again.
Hope you have better luck next time you try this!
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Agreed. 100% oats is an extreme mash. Unless they were malted, you had no diastatic potential, oatmeal sets up in the mash like, well, oatmeal. This was not BIAB's fault, rather an error in judgment of the brewer. Try it again with 50% barley malt and a pound of rice hulls and your results will be different.
And never believe everything you think. A 100% oat grist was a bad idea, as you have discovered.
And never believe everything you think. A 100% oat grist was a bad idea, as you have discovered.
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As much as I wanted to respond earlier, I hate to discourage anyone who must learn from their mistakes. My earlier response, which I chose not to post was simple. "Water + rolled or flaked oats = oatmeal. Add milk and sugar and you have breakfast." Now you know.
Your blaming the BIAB process is absurd. BIAB affords the least likelihood of a stuck mash/sparge of any process used in homebrewing.
Your blaming the BIAB process is absurd. BIAB affords the least likelihood of a stuck mash/sparge of any process used in homebrewing.
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Echo above posts it's the choice of grist part of brewing wisdom I suppose I learnt my lesson recently with a big splash of raw wheat in my whitbier which turned out a dumper.
I purposely left out details that I already put in the post previously but for those that didn't read all the way through I'll reiterate some of those :
There was plenty of amylase enzyme added to get around the need for barley malt. I also used over 2 pounds of rice hulls. The big issue with brew in a bag when doing 5gal batches is that son of a gun was SOOO heavy. When the oatmeal expanded it caused the bag to touch the sides of the pot and it burned my bag. I've had this happen on a few other brews too where the bag touched the side of the pot and got a burnt spot because the grain bill was so large. Couple this with the fact that it's very hard to lift a huge bag of soaking wet grains. I created a custom strainer that I sit on top of my pot to position the bag on while I run water over it, but I always end up spilling a large amount of sweet goodness on the ground and requiring the help of someone else to rinse while I try to position the very large bag of grains.
Have you ever tried a 5gal 100% oatmeal beer in BIAB? It pretty much soaks up the entire pot of water. If I used a large cooler mash tun with a false bottom I could have more easily rinsed the oatmeal. I'm not a weak guy and I had a hard time holding up the bag. I have a hard time holding up the bag with stouts too after they've soaked up all the water.
There was plenty of amylase enzyme added to get around the need for barley malt. I also used over 2 pounds of rice hulls. The big issue with brew in a bag when doing 5gal batches is that son of a gun was SOOO heavy. When the oatmeal expanded it caused the bag to touch the sides of the pot and it burned my bag. I've had this happen on a few other brews too where the bag touched the side of the pot and got a burnt spot because the grain bill was so large. Couple this with the fact that it's very hard to lift a huge bag of soaking wet grains. I created a custom strainer that I sit on top of my pot to position the bag on while I run water over it, but I always end up spilling a large amount of sweet goodness on the ground and requiring the help of someone else to rinse while I try to position the very large bag of grains.
Have you ever tried a 5gal 100% oatmeal beer in BIAB? It pretty much soaks up the entire pot of water. If I used a large cooler mash tun with a false bottom I could have more easily rinsed the oatmeal. I'm not a weak guy and I had a hard time holding up the bag. I have a hard time holding up the bag with stouts too after they've soaked up all the water.
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I'm not surprised at the result but I seriously applaud to you for trying! And posting the results! As others have said. Don't give up on BIAB or any other part of your process because of one failed experiment.
Ah gotcha on the weight of wet grain, that part does suck
But I never have the burner going with the bag in there so nothing's burned yet
But I never have the burner going with the bag in there so nothing's burned yet
Yeah I don't know how much water I can get away with putting in based on the grain weight since some grain takes up more space than others so I heat it up while the grain is in it.
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There are some draw backs to BIAB, a dedicated mash tun that works really well will eliminate the heavy lifting and spilled "goodness", pumping liquid around instead of lifting is a plus too. But i don't think the oatmeal beer would have turn much different in a dedicated mash, oatmeal sucks to work with even with rice hulls.
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You need to rig some kind of pulley system to raise the bag. Or default to smaller batches. I sometimes do a BIAB brew when it's a small batch and I need to mash. Both BIAB and conventional MLT brewing can have a place in your brewing.
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Some afterthoughts to add to my earlier post:
Also, I agree with everyone else saying to get a pulley setup; it makes life so much easier.
- I missed that you were trying to make this with only locally available ingredients. I'd still advocate for using malted oats, but if you decide not to order malted oats next time, and are just using rolled oats, it's my understanding that adding glucoamylase will still help loosen the mash more than alpha amylase on it's own.
- It sounds like you have a mill, so this may not be an issue for you, but if you're ordering malted oats pre-milled you might ask them to run them through twice. Oat berries are small enough that if they're not re-adjusting the mill you won't get a good crush with one pass.
Also, I agree with everyone else saying to get a pulley setup; it makes life so much easier.
My average grain bill for a (5gal) 21~lt batch is 4kg for a SG of around 1.044 ish that coupled with absorption weighs what 6-7Kg no dramas lifting that out the kettle and slotting that in a pot for sparge. Them oats musta really soaked up some water you'll have to double your absorption next crack at this one I'd expect.
My sparge pots got holes drilled in the bottom it slots inside my kettle so not much wort gets lost on the bag exchange.
I've brewed over 70 batches on different biab style brews and at the small scale most homebrewers brew on it suits me just fine.
Dont get dismayed learn adapt change and brew on.
Heres a pic of sparge today just for kicks and well I've had some HB..
This is freshly laid lol but I spread it out even then I ladle using a measuring cup my minute 5lt sparge volume through the grain does the job for the fella.
My sparge pots got holes drilled in the bottom it slots inside my kettle so not much wort gets lost on the bag exchange.
I've brewed over 70 batches on different biab style brews and at the small scale most homebrewers brew on it suits me just fine.
Dont get dismayed learn adapt change and brew on.
Heres a pic of sparge today just for kicks and well I've had some HB..
This is freshly laid lol but I spread it out even then I ladle using a measuring cup my minute 5lt sparge volume through the grain does the job for the fella.
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Not sure how you get away with 6-7Kg after grains being soaked. Sometimes I use 15lb of base malts, not including any specialty. Your grains look very dry, how long do you leave them sitting?
Yeah so I'd have to find a pot that would fit in my pot, craft up some handles, buy another brew bag, and create a pully system on my rental house. I've been struggling to find a pot the right size to fit inside my pot for a while.
Sounds like it would be cheaper/better for me to convert one of my big coolers I have into a mash tun using heat rated PVC and a Ball Valve that way I can get into 10gal brews.
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