Red Rye Pale Lager

Bigbre04

Well-Known Member
Premium Plus Member
Established Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
1,189
Reaction score
1,079
Points
113
Location
Tybee Island, Ga
Hey all,

So I have been bored. Worked up a new recipe that i might brew next week i think it will be pretty tasty! Going for a west coast-ish Red Rye IPL. No dryhop since it is an IPL. Went for Chinook, amarillo, and cascade. Might adjust the hops a touch to use up my 22oz of amarillo that i have left.

The current recipe! All feedback welcome!
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1556389
 
IPLs are often dry hopped
Sure, my problem is that I don't have the volume to transfer the beer off the hops. I'm pushing out exactly 2bbls of beer. If I transfer, I will only get about 3.5 kegs which is a pain in the ass.

The joys of pushing a 2hl brewhouse to its max...
 
I did something similar last year:
1744837057817.png


It was just ok, but had an aftertaste I did not like. Enough so that I called over a former BJCP buddy, who convinced me to lager it before deciding. 6 weeks later, that aftertaste was only a hint. It was drinkable a good, but not exceptional.

I do like your recipe and I think if I were to do this again I’d stack it with 2 row, Pils & rye. I’d probably keep only the cararye and add in chocolate rye late, late, late in the mash. I’d also push the IBU’s about halfway between mine and your current recipe, targeting about 42-43-ish.

On yours... I might up the rye percentage a little more - not a lot. My last 2 IPAs had just under 20% rye and were well received.
 
I think the only thing about that recipe that remotely hints at lager is the yeast. the IBUs put it pretty squarely in the IPA range. I might be tempted to call it a "Brut" IPA since it'll be of a more dry, crisp finish. I do like the hops a lot...classic West Coast/PNW flavors. Whatever you choose to call it, it looks to be a really tasty brew. I don't do anything with Rye and there are few to no Rye beers in the local craft offerings so I'm just not familiar with the flavor contribution but everything else looks good.
I have an American Amber on right now that's Centennial and CTZ (should-a, would-a, could-a done some Cascade, too). I fermented with the Mauribrew dry San Francisco lager yeast in the low 60s. Though it didn't attenuate as well as it could have, it's fairly dry and crisp and has retained some fruity esters. I expect that yours will have a similar vibe, though it's a bigger beer than my Amber - I think I'm at just shy of 6%.
 
I don't do anything with Rye and there are few to no Rye beers in the local craft offerings so I'm just not familiar with the flavor contribution but everything else looks good
You’re right, rye is not well represented in the brewing sphere, because it doesn’t take much of it to really increase the difficulty of your mash. I’ve has mostly success using it but not always! The highest percentage I’ve gotten away with is 25% of the mash. I tried a Roggenbier last year and missed my numbers; extraction was off, I was down in the low 60’s efficiency. When the fermentation was done it was just not good. I took notes on it and id’d my process issues and it’s on my agenda to retry. The 25% rye beer was a Cascadian Dark Ale and I rather liked it. Another beer I hope to revisit later this year.

If you’ve had bourbon, there are many “high rye” bourbons that give you an idea what it’s about. Rye whiskey will too. George Washington distilled rye whiskey, basically a rye “white dog” whiskey that only aged in the barrel long enough for it to reach its destination by way of Alexandria some 12 miles away. The recreation of this mash bill was done several years ago when they rebuilt the distillery. It’s insanely expensive, but it’s 99.95% old school distilling.
- They cut and split their own firewood, forge/make their own tools, coop their own barrels, they’re the last powered by fire distillery in the US, there’s no A/C.

It taste like... spicy grass. No kidding. Now, that said, GW did not age his whiskey, there wasn’t a significant financial push for that at the time in the colonies and he needed the money. But, after the distillery got the recreated mash bills out, they aged the rye a couple years in charred oak barrels like we do with modern whiskey and it’s quite good.

In beer, the grassiness and spice is much more muted and the spice is not like seeds in rye bread, a more subtle spice. Mostly, a slight spiciness is what you perceive, some describe it as earthiness. It’s also nice for mouthfeel.
 
I made a Rye Blonde recently that was 24% Rye Malt and 76% Pale. I never got any "spicy" anything from the Rye, though I did perceive a particular dryness or sharpness from the mouthfeel of the beer. Maybe that's what some consider "spicy", though if you are looking for Rye bread or pepper or clove, well... I think you will be disappointed. I can see why there are a lot of Rye IPA's around as I think Rye would work well with that style, or any beer where you might want a dry, crisp finish. Dry Stout, Saison...YMMV.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum...-drinking-right-now.2751/page-890#post-209481
 
That looks like a fun beer to make. I like stuff a little more sessionable, so the 5.7% above is a little more up my alley for an IPL.
 
@Dave Y So i bumped up the Rye to 30lbs(18.6%) i need to dig through some of my other recipes to compare the percentages to Flaked products to confirm that it wont be impossible to brew.

@Megary That reminded me that i made a Rye Golden lager a while back!
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1501049
This is it, it was only about 10%, but it was also a significantly lighter flavor profile beer. It was well received in general for the short time it was on draft.

@J A I could certainly shift it to Chico and add an end of fermentation dryhop, If i do that though i will have to wait until im closer to having a draft line open. the real advantage of the Lager yeast was that i could brew it and sit on it until i have a line open up. a Rye IPA is pretty normal style wise.

@Sandy Feet Most of my draft list is in the 5-5.7% range. My current IPA is at 6.7% with my belgian Tripel sitting at 9.2%... was just shooting for low 6s to fill out the line up abv wise. My double Golden lager is sitting very close to terminal(7.66% 79% attenuation) and is bunged up. Going to actually have time to give it a proper lager period, pretty pumped on that. Same goes for the the golden lager that im trying out the spunding valve on. I have 2 kegs ahead of it on the draft line so it should be able to get atleast a week or 2 of lagering time before it gets poured.

I have several days before I will need to brew this guy.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: J A
So i bumped up the Rye to 30lbs(18.6%) i need to dig through some of my other recipes to compare the percentages to Flaked products to confirm that it wont be impossible to brew.
Rice hulls baby!
I recently read that step mashes can help with rye malts... Have yet to try this.
 
Rice hulls baby!
I recently read that step mashes can help with rye malts... Have yet to try this.
Oh yes I use tons of rice hulls already. Ain't nobody got time for step mashing lol. I got distracted and didn't look at old recipes...
 
Oh yes I use tons of rice hulls already. Ain't nobody got time for step mashing lol. I got distracted and didn't look at old recipes...
I hear you, just did one and it was a long, long day. But, if it helps with wheat/rye, I’d spend that time up front rather than suffer a bad batch after all that work. I think it was the beta-glucan rest(?) but don’t quote me.
 
I hear you, just did one and it was a long, long day. But, if it helps with wheat/rye, I’d spend that time up front rather than suffer a bad batch after all that work. I think it was the beta-glucan rest(?) but don’t quote me.
My issue is that I have to mash in, recirc, mash out, and sparge twice....already a long day!
 
I hear you. When I have to brew in the ‘broil’ season, I get up early, grains ready, kettle waiting at mash in temp. The issue for me then becomes the wort chilling. If ambient temp is 88+, my water is also 88+ so best effort on chilling is going to be 90F, unless I pre-chill the wort.

Thinking about this now, if I had to, I could set my 14 gallon fermenter to about 35F with a full tank the day or 2 before and get it super -effin’ cold. I could chill down to about 100, then, sink a 2nd coil between hose and wort chiller and submerge it in the ice cold fermenter water to get a few more degrees. Anyway, that’s just an idea right now but I feel that pain.
 
I hear you. When I have to brew in the ‘broil’ season, I get up early, grains ready, kettle waiting at mash in temp. The issue for me then becomes the wort chilling. If ambient temp is 88+, my water is also 88+ so best effort on chilling is going to be 90F, unless I pre-chill the wort.

Thinking about this now, if I had to, I could set my 14 gallon fermenter to about 35F with a full tank the day or 2 before and get it super -effin’ cold. I could chill down to about 100, then, sink a 2nd coil between hose and wort chiller and submerge it in the ice cold fermenter water to get a few more degrees. Anyway, that’s just an idea right now but I feel that pain.
You could use that cold water and push it through a heat ex? Do you have a single stage or double stage heat ex? If you had a double you could knock off a lot of temp with street water and then final temp it with cold liquor. That's basically what I do but with glycol
 
Yeah, I’ve got a 2 circuit glycol chiller. Once i get close to ambient I t/f to the fermenter and start chilling to pitch temp if needed, or pitch yeast and begin ramping temp down to optimum temp. I can run lagers all year round, but from about May - most of November, I won’t be able to cold crash. I can only knock off 40-45F off ambient. Usually I can get down to about 42-44 and I just re-confirmed that last week - we were in the 90’s here and I couldn’t break 42F. The garage is well insulated but I think I’m going to pick up a window shaker to knock some of that heat off. I can run it during cold crash and see how they do.

I’ve even taken to using both circuits on a single fermenter. I run the main chiller through the coil chiller and the second circuit I wrapped the fermenters with 1/4” duo tight tubing, and wrapped back up with the jacket. I do get one benefit from this, the wort temp is consistent. My main temp sensor is inside the big ol’ cooling coil, so it always shows colder than tilt. Now I’m within 1F.
 
Yeah, I’ve got a 2 circuit glycol chiller. Once i get close to ambient I t/f to the fermenter and start chilling to pitch temp if needed, or pitch yeast and begin ramping temp down to optimum temp. I can run lagers all year round, but from about May - most of November, I won’t be able to cold crash. I can only knock off 40-45F off ambient. Usually I can get down to about 42-44 and I just re-confirmed that last week - we were in the 90’s here and I couldn’t break 42F. The garage is well insulated but I think I’m going to pick up a window shaker to knock some of that heat off. I can run it during cold crash and see how they do.

I’ve even taken to using both circuits on a single fermenter. I run the main chiller through the coil chiller and the second circuit I wrapped the fermenters with 1/4” duo tight tubing, and wrapped back up with the jacket. I do get one benefit from this, the wort temp is consistent. My main temp sensor is inside the big ol’ cooling coil, so it always shows colder than tilt. Now I’m within 1F.
Running one fermenter as a cold liquor tank is a great idea with that setup!

Doesn't sound like you have a plate chiller just an immersion chiller?

I think you can get little glycol units fairly cheaply? Look up line chillers.
 
I hear you. When I have to brew in the ‘broil’ season, I get up early, grains ready, kettle waiting at mash in temp. The issue for me then becomes the wort chilling. If ambient temp is 88+, my water is also 88+ so best effort on chilling is going to be 90F, unless I pre-chill the wort.

Thinking about this now, if I had to, I could set my 14 gallon fermenter to about 35F with a full tank the day or 2 before and get it super -effin’ cold. I could chill down to about 100, then, sink a 2nd coil between hose and wort chiller and submerge it in the ice cold fermenter water to get a few more degrees. Anyway, that’s just an idea right now but I feel that pain.
No chill
Most of the time my water is far too warm to chill, and Ben got me on the Ozz idea of no chill and so far so good
 
The Sandy method for chilling a lager:
Set refrigerator at 48. Use wort chiller to try to get close to 80F_ Sometimes difficult in Florida during the summer. Put fermenter in refrigerator. Go to brewery and drink 2 1/2 beers. Go to Publix for the shit you forgot the previous day or forgot to have delivered from Kroger. By the time you get home at 2.5 or three hours, the beer should be in the 60s to pitch. Pitch yeast. Turn refrigerator to 55 to ferment.
 

Back
Top