WLP800 Lager yeast

[lucas.mueller]

Hi there, first time here
I brewed my first pilsner in the weekend (OG 1.056).
I use WLP800 as suggested in Jamil's wonderful BCS book. According to instructions I used 2 vials of PurePitch to avoid using a starter. I took vials out of fridge and let it warm to room temp (20 celcius). I then pitched 2 packages of WLP800 into cooled wort (11 celcius). No fermentation signs after almost 3 days. I now realized that package says to pitch at room temp for both yeast and wort. I have now set temp to 21 celcius to get fermentation started. Will this work or do I have to re-pitch with fresh yeast?
I am also curious about the fact that package instructions contradict what I read almost everywhere about actually pitching at low temp, Jamil even suggests pitching lower than opt temp ...

 

[jeffpn]

There are as many different ways to brew as there are brewers. Your yeast should still be fine. I bet shows activity soon.

 

[lucas.mueller]

Thanks for the feedback. I will let it now warm up to room temp and wait for some activity. I will report the result just to document if it turns good or not after my messy pitching.

 

[thunderwagn]

I almost always make a starter. If for no other reason, at least I know the yeast is healthy and active before pitching. Not to mention, making a starter is usually much cheaper than purchasing multiple packs of liquid yeast.

 

[J A]

Pitching at 11C is mighty cold, but raising to 20C at this point is probably too warm. I'd try no higher than15C and be careful of raising and lowering too much or too quickly. The truth is that if you just left it alone at this point, it'll make beer. Low-temp fermentation is not very energetic and depending on what activity you're looking for, you may think it's doing nothing while it's actually working away.
While it would have reproduced quicker at higher temp, it will do the same thing at the lower temp...just a lot slower. Temperature changes are the thing that's most unsettling for a yeast colony. Raising drastically and then lowering at this point may result in a stuck fermentation or less than clean lager flavor.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I took vials out of fridge and let it warm to room temp (20 celcius). I then pitched 2 packages of WLP800 into cooled wort (11 celcius).

Well, first of all, pitching a 20C yeast into a 11C wort is probably not a good idea. The yeast will suffer thermal shock. It's important to try to equalize the temp between the yeast slurry and the wort. You can pitch that low in temp, but it requires a lot more yeast. You pitched about 160 billion cells, really you should pitch @ 500 billion with that temp and gravity. When I brew a 1.050 lager, I pitch @ 600 billion cells at 5.5 to 6.5C (42-44F) and the lag time is 20 -30 hours depending on the type of lager yeast. WLP830 tends to be a little longer than WLP833, as an example.

 

[Mase]

600 billion cells for a 1.050? Is that for 10 gallons or do you need a lot more yeast cells for lagers? Haven't brewed a lager yet, but will try one this winter when the cellar is cool into the mid 50's.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I always pitch at or around ferment temp with lagers with no dramas I think the lesson here is building up a good yeast count or just use 34/70 lager yeast its is a hardy yeast and will take a fair bit of abuse before ruining your beer.

 

[Nosybear]

Hi there, first time here
I brewed my first pilsner in the weekend (OG 1.056).
I use WLP800 as suggested in Jamil's wonderful BCS book. According to instructions I used 2 vials of PurePitch to avoid using a starter. I took vials out of fridge and let it warm to room temp (20 celcius). I then pitched 2 packages of WLP800 into cooled wort (11 celcius). No fermentation signs after almost 3 days. I now realized that package says to pitch at room temp for both yeast and wort. I have now set temp to 21 celcius to get fermentation started. Will this work or do I have to re-pitch with fresh yeast?
I am also curious about the fact that package instructions contradict what I read almost everywhere about actually pitching at low temp, Jamil even suggests pitching lower than opt temp ...

First off, the suggestion of pitching at 20° C then cooling is based on an old homebrew process. Jamil's process is the one I follow: Chill the wort below fermentation temperature to pitch. Your yeast should have started after three days - that worries me. And as mentioned above, the pitch rate is low based on a number of calculators but that shouldn't be that much of an issue at this point.

600 billion cells for a 1.050? Is that for 10 gallons or do you need a lot more yeast cells for lagers? Haven't brewed a lager yet, but will try one this winter when the cellar is cool into the mid 50's.

Seems high to me as well - should be around 385 billion for 5.5 gallons. That's three packs of liquid yeast, two packs of dry yeast, rehydrated, or one pack pitched to a 2-liter starter on a stir plate, assuming 100% viability of the initial yeast. It scales up proportionally: 600 billion cells would be needed for an 8.6 gallon batch at the recommended pitch rate.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

600 billion cells for a 1.050? Is that for 10 gallons or do you need a lot more yeast cells for lagers? Haven't brewed a lager yet, but will try one this winter when the cellar is cool into the mid 50's.

That’s for 5 gallons. I over pitch and pitch cold, wlp830 gets fruity if it’s fermented above 46 or so (it’s an awesome yeast if handled it correctly). You really can’t over pitch a lager, the more you can pitch the better. Pitching a smaller amount does work, just make sure it gets enough oxygen and expect longer lag times.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

385 billion for 5.5 gallons. That's three packs of liquid yeast,

I would say that 3 packs of liquid yeast is realistically @ 240 billion cells, unless you can get them a few days old from the yeast manufacturer, than 300 tops. Most homebrew stores carry yeast that has been around for a month or so, unless you get lucky and catch them when they're uber fresh. That's why it's so important to make a starter for lagers, fresh yeast in high numbers makes a world of difference in cold fermented beers.