water calculator doesn't match overall water profile in recipe

[Brewer #67600]

Hi All,

Apologies if this is old news

but why is it that my linked water profile and adjustments overall water report is completely different from that shown in my recipe?
Screen shot included

This makes absolutely no sense to me when they are linked and based on each other. Which one should I actually believe is correct?

Cheers all

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

so your using the blackberry stout water as your target not what you just created, if you look they are close but different

 

[Brewer #67600]

so your using the blackberry stout water as your target not what you just created, if you look they are close but different

Hi Ozarks,
The target is meant to be the same water profile as I used for a blackberry stou previously. The cookie recipe is linked correctly (but used the same target as chosen from a drop down box of my saved profiles.) It’s the differences in overall water report between the two that concerns me as these should surely be exactly the same as the water calculation and recipe is linked. Every item in grist and water adjustment is the same in both but the overalls are different as shown.
This seems like a glitch in the BF link code to me unless I’ve missed something else. To be honest I’ve adjusted absolutely everything back and forth to see the differences. And can’t figure out where those values are coming from

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

see the use as target button, click that and save, let me know what happens?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

the recipe is using the target profile and the water calculator is using the overall water report, they are not the same

 

[Brewer #67600]

see the use as target button, click that and save, let me know what happens?

Done That just sets the target ion values to the given numbers in overall below

 

[Jenileo]

I am also seeing this issue so if there is a solution let me know! Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

We're working on this!

 

[Yooper]

Should be fixed now!

 

[Craigerrr]

Looks spot on today!
Thanks BF staff!

 

[PZ]

I've tried to be patient while the dedicated BF staff works through the bugs, but I have to say that I am baffled. There are mash pH numbers and columns all over the place, but what is that number, the target or the actual Ingredients going into the mash? I believe it should be the grains plus the water plus the salts. My preference would be to remove it entirely.

The brewer should have the option of looking at the calculated pH (that number is pretty good), taking note and then comparing it to an actual measurement of the mash. Others might not care to measure the mash but can relax knowing that the pH will be close to the calculated value. Having the target number displayed is confusing and irritating.

Also, today I noticed that going back and forth produces an "actual analysis" that is completely wrong, like it keeps adding salts every time you go to the water calculator to make an adjustment. I had to delete the whole thing and start over. I was a programmer until recently so I understand what goes into a solid application. My advice is to back off the bells and whistles and keep the focus on the basic accuracy. Fix the preboil gravity!

All that said, I do appreciate all your hard work.

-PZ

 

[PZ]

Looks like people are making changes. Now the pH in the recipe reflects the calculated pH in the water calculator. However, the water volumes are getting messed up, which changes the "actual analysis." And when I say messed up, it is really off. Ordinarily I don't fill in the water amounts in the mash schedule of the recipe because the mash calculator in the brew session does it all. The recipe I am working on is using a double decoction so I am calculating a couple of those amounts. The program seems to think that this is the water I am using. In this case it adds up to about 3 gallons (instead of closer to 8) so the ion concentration is through the roof. And if the volumes are way off, then the pH is also.

I like the feature of the water calculator adding the salts to the recipe, but so far I have wasted a lot of time working around the calculations. I was happy using the water calculator and typing in the expected pH in the notes. Please roll back all the changes and do a lot of testing before implementing them again. Wrong information is far worse than no information.

Thanks, PZ

 

[Yooper]

Looks like people are making changes. Now the pH in the recipe reflects the calculated pH in the water calculator. However, the water volumes are getting messed up, which changes the "actual analysis." And when I say messed up, it is really off. Ordinarily I don't fill in the water amounts in the mash schedule of the recipe because the mash calculator in the brew session does it all. The recipe I am working on is using a double decoction so I am calculating a couple of those amounts. The program seems to think that this is the water I am using. In this case it adds up to about 3 gallons (instead of closer to 8) so the ion concentration is through the roof. And if the volumes are way off, then the pH is also.

I like the feature of the water calculator adding the salts to the recipe, but so far I have wasted a lot of time working around the calculations. I was happy using the water calculator and typing in the expected pH in the notes. Please roll back all the changes and do a lot of testing before implementing them again. Wrong information is far worse than no information.

Thanks, PZ

The mash pH is calculated with the, well, mash water and grain. Try it with using the amount of water in the mash, and it will be correct.

 

[Craigerrr]

I am quite happy with this update, with no disrespect to PZ's comments. With building my water profile from RO water, the pH predictor is very helpful for getting into the ball park

 

[Rafael D]

This seemed fine last time I used it but now the pH value in the recipe editor is off once again. Also, once I go back to the previously saved linked profile in the mash calculator, the pH in the mash calculator is off because it's reloading all malts as base malts (even roasted barley and chocolate malt!).

 

[Yooper]

This seemed fine last time I used it but now the pH value in the recipe editor is off once again. Also, once I go back to the previously saved linked profile in the mash calculator, the pH in the mash calculator is off because it's reloading all malts as base malts (even roasted barley and chocolate malt!).

We just pushed a few fixes- can you give me a screenshot of the problem, so we can fix it right away? Thank you!

 

[PZ]

Just to further explain my problem from November 9, the water amounts keep changing based on the mash schedule where I am putting in my own calculated decoction volumes, and the calculator is using those instead of the water as calculated by the water requirements. My decoction amounted to 3 gallons versus the total water volume of 7.7 gallons. The mash calculator in the brew session is excellent, as are the quick water requirements, so I don't understand why the recipe would create something new.

 

[Rafael D]

Yooper, first image is the way the mash calculator looks after I get the pH and minerals to where I want them. It is saved at that point.
The second image shows what the recipe editor looks like when I go back and click "update recipe" in the water calculator section. Notice that the pH there is not the same as in the mash calculator. The third image is what the mash calculator looks like when I click on "edit" to try to return to what is shown in the first image. All the malts are set to "base malt" and the pH is off once again.
Rafael

 

[Rafael D]

An update on the above issue:
The above recipe had been copied from a recipe that was a couple of years old using the "Copy" tool. I wondered if this was somehow causing the problem since recipes I created since the most recent updates (that include the pH in the recipe) are working fine. So I created the exact same recipe from scratch and linked it to the mash calculator as I usually do. Everything is now working. The pH in the recipe vs the mash calculator differ slightly (5.28 vs 5.32) but close enough for me.
Rafael

 

[SeanKTM300]

BF water calculator used to worlk quite well for me. Now, when i punch in additions of, say gypsum, nothing changes in the delta calculation.

There used to be an UPDATE button now I don't see anything.

Any suggestions