Use harvested yeast

[jb1986]

Hello,

It's the first time I try that and it really just is because I'm curious. I might also not use it at all and pitch with another pack of dry yeast.

I'm doing it with an harvested verdant IPA (I know it doesn't really make sense with dry yeast). My biggest question is the quantity but I would be glad if you could review the entire process.

I used 50gr of yeast slurry harvested from my previous brew. I purged it form my conical fermenter, cleaned it with sanitized water and it was in my fridge since 2 months.

I did the following:
-Boiled 2 liters of water with 230gr of malt extract and 2.5gr of yeast nutrient (same quantity as I use when I brew?)
-Waited until temp was 24°C
-Pitched with the 50gr of yeast slurry I had in my fridge.
-Put it on my magnetic stirrer

Now my plan is to
-wait 24 hours. stop the stirrer.
-Wait another 24 hours and check if it settled / finished
-Put it 12hours in my fridge.
-Keep only the yeast slurry. Keep a given amount (how much???) for the next time and use the rest in my beer.

1. What I have no idea about is the quantities. I saw in the tools that yeast count is usually ~1B/gr (or between 1 and 5 ?) in yeast slurry. Should I use the pitch rate calculator and put 50B cells as Starting Yeast Count? Or because it is 2 months old, ~50% died, so 25B?
2. Should i use yeast nutrient again in my Wort when I brew? Or is it enough if I used it in my starter?
3. How much should I keep for the next brew? again 50ml? Will the amount per ml also be ~1B/ml in my starters yeast slurry? Or should I just divide the Ending Cell Count by the total amount of yeast slurry I will have in the end?
4. What would happen if I pitch my beer with too much or not enough yeast? Let's say my yeast count was not 50B but 1B or 500B?

I tried to find the answers to those questions here but was not successful. :-(
Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculator - Brewer's Friend (brewersfriend.com)
Yeast Harvesting | Brülosophy (brulosophy.com)

Thank you

 

[GFHomebrew]

Looks like a nice clean slurry of verdant you started with mate.

That verdant sure throws a healthy thick fluffy krausen aye be careful filling that flask too full I wouldn't go any more that 2.5 lt.

It's hard to overpitch on the hombrew level.
Yes use the same nutrient as you put in the kettle I go 1 teaspoon.
Since your using that borosilicate jar there I'd just fill that from your flask ones the starter is finished fermentation (usually 24 hours in for me).

I go 1 billion yeast cells / 1ml of clean pure yeast but recently on the brulab pody they were stating even up to 2 billion per ml of pure yeast.

So erring on the hombrewing side of caution 1 billion per Ml is a conservative guess especially if there is any trub mixed in on that yeast or if using slurry I'd drop it farther to half a billion per ML.

So see that picture of the jar it looks like 50ml half is pure cream and then there is the paler stuff at the bottom so not as pure bur going on what I've said above I think it's safe to put your starting cell count at 50 billion.

Usually 100billion - 150 bill will get you a nice ferment with ale yeast.

Oh in regards to crashing and decanting your starter I pitch the lot these days I've found no flavour impact at all and I regularly brew lager style beer.

I hope I've helped you a tad.

 

[jb1986]

Looks like a nice clean slurry of verdant you started with mate.

That verdant sure throws a healthy thick fluffy krausen aye be careful filling that flask too full I wouldn't go any more that 2.5 lt.

It's hard to overpitch on the hombrew level.
Yes use the same nutrient as you put in the kettle I go 1 teaspoon.
Since your using that borosilicate jar there I'd just fill that from your flask ones the starter is finished fermentation (usually 24 hours in for me).

I go 1 billion yeast cells / 1ml of clean pure yeast but recently on the brulab pody they were stating even up to 2 billion per ml of pure yeast.

So erring on the hombrewing side of caution 1 billion per Ml is a conservative guess especially if there is any trub mixed in on that yeast or if using slurry I'd drop it farther to half a billion per ML.

So see that picture of the jar it looks like 50ml half is pure cream and then there is the paler stuff at the bottom so not as pure bur going on what I've said above I think it's safe to put your starting cell count at 50 billion.

Usually 100billion - 150 bill will get you a nice ferment with ale yeast.

Oh in regards to crashing and decanting your starter I pitch the lot these days I've found no flavour impact at all and I regularly brew lager style beer.

I hope I've helped you a tad.

Thank you very much!! It helps a lot!

If i put 50B in the calculator it tells me that I should end up with 371 billion cells. Meaning that I could keep ~1/3 of the starter for the next time. Does it make sense?

And do you also clean/wash the slurry with sterilized water?

KR

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I think Ben is right about the yeast counts. 1-2 billion is a nice conservative number. I estimated as high as 5 billion per mL, but that was really fresh, time reduces cell counts.

If your going to pitch the whole thing as Ben suggested, I would only let the yeast stay on the stir plate 12-14 hours and then direct pitch. Leaving your yeast on the plate too long can cause stress on your little friends. It's best to pitch the yeast in it's log phase, which just means when it's in it's highest level of growth. I started doing that about 6 months ago and saw my lags time drop by half. The cell count was actually lower than I would normally pitch. Some brewers refer to it as pitching at high krausen. It really works well.

If you want to build up your yeast several days prior to brewing, you leave the yeast on the plate for 12-14 hours and then put it in the fridge until you brew. At that point you can decant it if you don't want the starter wort. It keeps really well for 4-6 days and still has a really short lag time.

 

[Donoroto]

Thank you very much!! It helps a lot!

If i put 50B in the calculator it tells me that I should end up with 371 billion cells. Meaning that I could keep ~1/3 of the starter for the next time. Does it make sense?

And do you also clean/wash the slurry with sterilized water?

KR

Yes, about 1/3 for next time is a good idea.

No, there is no real need to wash the yeast.

After up to 24 h on the stir plate, I usually cold crash immediately, perhaps a few hours only or sometimes overnight, then I pour off much of the clear(ish) liquid on top, dump a whole bunch of it into the wort, and keep a little for next time. Just letting it sit for another 24 h does not seem like a good idea to me.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I think Ben is right about the yeast counts. 1-2 billion is a nice conservative number. I estimated as high as 5 billion per mL, but that was really fresh, time reduces cell counts.

If your going to pitch the whole thing as Ben suggested, I would only let the yeast stay on the stir plate 12-14 hours and then direct pitch. Leaving your yeast on the plate too long can cause stress on your little friends. It's best to pitch the yeast in it's log phase, which just means when it's in it's highest level of growth. I started doing that about 6 months ago and saw my lags time drop by half. The cell count was actually lower than I would normally pitch. Some brewers refer to it as pitching at high krausen. It really works well.

If you want to build up your yeast several days prior to brewing, you leave the yeast on the plate for 12-14 hours and then put it in the fridge until you brew. At that point you can decant it if you don't want the starter wort. It keeps really well for 4-6 days and still has a really short lag time.

Amen yeah that's where the decantation method can sometimes lead to a little lag because effectively you've put the yeast back to sleep so they need to once again re acclimatise themselves to the wort once pitched.

I rekon also using some fresh Real wort from the actual beer they will be fermenting goes one step further to getting them going real quick no acclimatisation needed as all is the same as in the starter.


Yeah most brew days I'm brewing in the day getting some Wort spinning in the flask over night then pitching that next morning or mostly next arvo.

But yes some yeast like Nova are already done next morning lol.

As per the OP yeast washing I'd shy away from that as the less times you introduce the yeast or anything into the yeast media the more likely of introducing bacteria.

Think your potentially gunna be propagating your mistakes down the track.


The method that's served me well for a long time.

Is make a starter decant a portion once finished into a jar 500ml and pitch the rest and repeat.

 

[jb1986]

Hello,

Here is a comparison of what I had at the beginning and what I have after 24hours. I stopped the stirrer. AFAIK looks and smells good.

You were right for the max 2.5L ;-) I had 2L and it was almost too much already.

Now my issue is that I will brew in 24hours.
What should I do?
Leave it like that for the next 24hours? Maybe with an airlock?
Put it in the fridge?
Try to brew this evening ?

Thank you!

 

[GFHomebrew]

Hello,

Here is a comparison of what I had at the beginning and what I have after 24hours. I stopped the stirrer. AFAIK looks and smells good.
View attachment 26080

You were right for the max 2.5L ;-) I had 2L and it was almost too much already.

Now my issue is that I will brew in 24hours.
What should I do?
Leave it like that for the next 24hours? Maybe with an airlock?
Put it in the fridge?
Try to brew this evening ?

Thank you!

Look I'd probably just leave it as is man.

Looks like you've still got some krausen.

Maybe slow the stirer right down to a gentle agitation just to keep everything in suspension.

Don't forget to go clean and sanitise a jar to save some for next time.

Yeah if my memory serves me correctly that verdant doesn't like to flock out too quickly so it'll all be just hanging around in 24hrs for a lovely pitch at the end of your brew day.

You done good

 

[jb1986]

Hello.

I took 10hours to see bubbles. Isn't that a bit long?

Could it be because the starter was made to early?

Or not enough yeast? I kept 1/3 and it is ~75gr of pure yeast. So ~150gr of yeast has been pitched?

Or temperature? The room temperature was 26°C. My starter temp was probably higher and I pitched in a wort at 18°C.

 

[Donoroto]

Hello.

I took 10hours to see bubbles. Isn't that a bit long?

Could it be because the starter was made to early?

Or not enough yeast? I kept 1/3 and it is ~75gr of pure yeast. So ~150gr of yeast has been pitched?

Or temperature? The room temperature was 26°C. My starter temp was probably higher and I pitched in a wort at 18°C.

I have waited over 3 days for bubbles sometimes. 10 hours is not a long time, typically.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Hello.

I took 10hours to see bubbles. Isn't that a bit long?

Could it be because the starter was made to early?

Or not enough yeast? I kept 1/3 and it is ~75gr of pure yeast. So ~150gr of yeast has been pitched?

Or temperature? The room temperature was 26°C. My starter temp was probably higher and I pitched in a wort at 18°C.

Looks beautiful to me man!

10 hours if totally fine don't sweat it mate enjoy the process

 

[Bigbre04]

Looks like a nice clean slurry of verdant you started with mate.

That verdant sure throws a healthy thick fluffy krausen aye be careful filling that flask too full I wouldn't go any more that 2.5 lt.

It's hard to overpitch on the hombrew level.
Yes use the same nutrient as you put in the kettle I go 1 teaspoon.
Since your using that borosilicate jar there I'd just fill that from your flask ones the starter is finished fermentation (usually 24 hours in for me).

I go 1 billion yeast cells / 1ml of clean pure yeast but recently on the brulab pody they were stating even up to 2 billion per ml of pure yeast.

So erring on the hombrewing side of caution 1 billion per Ml is a conservative guess especially if there is any trub mixed in on that yeast or if using slurry I'd drop it farther to half a billion per ML.

So see that picture of the jar it looks like 50ml half is pure cream and then there is the paler stuff at the bottom so not as pure bur going on what I've said above I think it's safe to put your starting cell count at 50 billion.

Usually 100billion - 150 bill will get you a nice ferment with ale yeast.

Oh in regards to crashing and decanting your starter I pitch the lot these days I've found no flavour impact at all and I regularly brew lager style beer.

I hope I've helped you a tad.

I have waited over 3 days for bubbles sometimes. 10 hours is not a long time, typically.

3 days is a long ass time! that would have been nerve racking for me. My Cashmere IPA that I brewed on Wednesday this week had dropped over 7P in 12 hrs! I just dry-hopped it today on day 4 after collecting yeasties! Super pumped for this beer. dh was 2# cryo cashmere 10 oz cryo sabro and citra. I push 1.5LPM of O2 and knocked it out at 100F. 14g yeastex 82. tank was set to cool it at about 102 F.

 

[Donoroto]

3 days is a long ass time! that would have been nerve racking for me. My Cashmere IPA that I brewed on Wednesday this week had dropped over 7P in 12 hrs! I just dry-hopped it today on day 4 after collecting yeasties! Super pumped for this beer. dh was 2# cryo cashmere 10 oz cryo sabro and citra. I push 1.5LPM of O2 and knocked it out at 100F. 14g yeastex 82. tank was set to cool it at about 102 F.

Well yeah, I was freaking out for sure. But another guy on the forum had the exact same experience, so I figured maybe my batch was doing the same thing.

And it did.

One of the advantages of the forum, lots of folks to bounce things off of.

 

[Bigbre04]

Well yeah, I was freaking out for sure. But another guy on the forum had the exact same experience, so I figured maybe my batch was doing the same thing.

And it did.

One of the advantages of the forum, lots of folks to bounce things off of.

very very true. the hivemind has usually seen it all!