Thoughts on Pineapple Milkshake NEIPA recipe

[SCoutdoors]

Long story short I am fairly new to brewing. A buddy and I have a few good brews under our belts using all-grain. The last beer I did was a pale ale and my wife liked it but said was too hoppy for her and wanted me to make her something Pineapple. So I scoured lots of other ideas and recipes and put together a recipe that to me looks good, but would love some feedback from more experienced folks.

Grain Bill:
9lbs 2-Row Pale
1lbs Flaked Wheat
8oz Flaked Oats
8z Carapils
8oz Rice Hulls

Hops:
0.25oz Citra 30min boil
0.3oz BRU-1 5min boil
0.3oz El Dorado 5min boil
1.5 Azacca 15min hopstand at 170F
1.5oz El Dorado 15min hopstand at 170F
0.5oz Citra 10min hopstand at 165F
1.25oz Citra Dry Hop 3 days after fermentation has finished
1oz BRU-1 3 days after fermentation has finished
1oz Vic Secret 3 days after fermentation has finished
0.5oz Denali (Sultana) 3 days after fermentation has finished
0.5oz BRU-1 5 days after first drop hop
0.5oz Denali (Sultana) 5 days after first drop hop
0.5oz Vic Secret 5 days after first drop hop

Yeast:
Omega OYL-091 Hornindal Kveik or White Labs WLP521 Hornindal

Additions:
12oz Lactose (10min left in boil)
1tsp Yeast Nutrient (10min left in boil)
1/5 gal 100% Pineapple Juice (with the first dry hop)
1oz Vanilla Extract (with the first dry hop)


Does anything here sound overkill or underkill?

 

[J A]

Does anything here sound overkill or underkill?

I think "overkill" isn't really possible in a recipe like this. It seems like an effort to put in as much non-beer stuff as you can and still call it a beer. In terms of the fermentables, it looks like you'll get a heavy, sweet, thick and murky glass of beer and I suppose that's what you're after. It won't be subtle.

The hop schedule is unnecessarily complex, though. A quarter ounce of anything is going to get lost in all that so just skip the tiny additions and build a decent hop profile using sizeable additions of 2 or 3 appropriately-flavored hops. I'd focus on the Citra, Bru-1, Azacca and Denali. Maybe just a big dose of Citra Cryo for the hop stand/whirlpool to keep things simple and dry-hop early and often with the other 2 or 3 hops.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I've not intentionally tried to brew a pineapple beer. But my first thoughts on hops are more fruity hops Galaxy mosaic I've found Equinox also gives me the fruit but these maybe more passionfruit mango guava style flavours aromas than just pineapple but you could be tricked to thinking along the pineapple line with these tropical hops.
I love your choice of yeast hornindal is perfect for throwing that tropical supporting juicy flavour. I found Framgarden gave me this as well but didn't brew enough with it to say which was better.

So I'd drop the citrus in favour of Galaxy or Mosaic (be careful on the dry hop with Galaxy sometimes it can get grassy).

The lactose is interesting you trying for some sweetness on the finish I can't talk to that but I've not brewed with it.
Pineapple juice there is some enzyme in pineapple juice paw paw juice and kiwi fruit that is like an Amylase type enzyme it's great for breaking down or (tenderising ) meat
But I've used juiced pineapple before in Cider turned out tart n complimented the apples.
I'd be tempted to just whirlpool some pineapple chunks before the chil down (that way leaving em in the kettle but getting some juicy flavour) be careful remember there is tart in pineapple.
Fructose is completely fermentable which will dry the beer but the lactose might cover it there.
A high mash might too.
Let me know how you go

 

[Craigerrr]

This is up my alley as far as the style goes.

You could get the hint of pineapple I think you are looking for from the hops, alone, see below on BRU-1 hops.

I agree with JA on your complicated hop schedule.
Drop the boil hops all together, a true NEIPA doesn't include any, you will get a subtle bitterness by whirlpooling at a relatively high temperature. Do not skimp on the hops either, 8 oz in whirlpool, 4oz as soon as fermentation is lively, and another 4 oz within 24 hours or less than that. A combination of BRU-1, Citra, and Amarillo might be a nice combo...

For the grain bill you could go with up to 9-10% each of flaked wheat and flaked oats, and another 5-8% wheat malt.

Water is also a significant key to getting the flavor and mouth feel you are looking for. It seems counterintuitive to use a water profile that accentuates malts, and downplays hops, but this is what you are looking for.

Here is a tried and true recipe of mine that EVERYONE loves!!

COVID Operation
New England IPA
5.6% / 15.8 °P
All Grain
BrewZilla / RoboBrew 35L 30Min Boil
68% efficiency
Batch Volume: 21 L
Boil Time: 30 min
Mash Water: 22.99 L
Sparge Water: 5.69 L
Total Water: 28.68 L
Boil Volume: 24.44 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.057
Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.022
IBU (Tinseth): 41
BU/GU: 0.64
Color: 6.6 SRM
Mash
Strike Temp — 73.9 °C
Mash — 69 °C — 120 min
Mashout — 75 °C — 15 min
Malts (5.8 kg)
3.67 kg (56.6%) — Patagonia Pale Malt — Grain — 3.1 °L
620 g (9.6%) — Briess Oats, Flaked — Grain — 1.6 °L
620 g (9.6%) — Wheat Flaked — Grain — 2 °L
480 g (7.4%) — BestMalz Wheat Malt — Grain — 2.3 °L
250 g (3.9%) — Briess Victory Malt (biscuit) — Grain — 21.2 °L
160 g (2.5%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 2 °L
250 g (3.9%) — Briess Rice Hulls — Adjunct — 0 °L - Mash
Other (680 g)
0.5 items — Whirlfloc — Boil — 15 min
5 g — Yeast Nutrients — Boil — 15 min
430 g (6.6%) — Milk Sugar (Lactose) — Sugar — 0 °L — Boil — 10 min
1 oz — Dried Tangerine Peel — Boil — 5 min
4.2 ml — Vanilla Extract — With one of the dry hop additions
Hops (480 g)
60 g (8 IBU) — Amarillo 9.2% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
60 g (11 IBU) — Citra 12.5% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 80 °C
60 g (11 IBU) — Mosaic 12.25% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 80 °C
60 g (12 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
60 g — Mosaic 12.25% — Dry Hop — day 1
60 g — Simcoe 13% — Dry Hop — day 1
60 g — Amarillo 9.2% — Dry Hop — day 2
60 g — Citra 12.5% — Dry Hop — day 2
Hopstand at 80 °C
Miscs
9.1 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
0.6 g — Canning Salt (NaCl) — Mash
1.5 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
1.5 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
Yeast
1 pkg — Lallemand (LalBrew) Voss Kveik 77%
Fermentation
Primary — 29.4 °C — 5 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol
Water Profile
Ca2+ 100, Mg2+ 5 Na+ 16 Cl- 170 SO42- 51 HCO3- 16
Above water profile is the result from starting with RO water.

4/27/2021 - Increased Lactose, changed from two row to Patagonia malt, and reduced mash temperature

 

[SCoutdoors]

This is great feedback from all. Gives me lots to think about for sure. I will definitely up the dry hopping and consolidate some of the hops additions. Already have a few other tweaks in mind
thanks all

This is up my alley as far as the style goes.

You could get the hint of pineapple I think you are looking for from the hops, alone, see below on BRU-1 hops.

I agree with JA on your complicated hop schedule.
Drop the boil hops all together, a true NEIPA doesn't include any, you will get a subtle bitterness by whirlpooling at a relatively high temperature. Do not skimp on the hops either, 8 oz in whirlpool, 4oz as soon as fermentation is lively, and another 4 oz within 24 hours or less than that. A combination of BRU-1, Citra, and Amarillo might be a nice combo...

For the grain bill you could go with up to 9-10% each of flaked wheat and flaked oats, and another 5-8% wheat malt.

Water is also a significant key to getting the flavor and mouth feel you are looking for. It seems counterintuitive to use a water profile that accentuates malts, and downplays hops, but this is what you are looking for.

View attachment 19419

Here is a tried and true recipe of mine that EVERYONE loves!!

COVID Operation
New England IPA
5.6% / 15.8 °P

 

[Craigerrr]

El Dorado is a good hop to bring some pineapple flavor too. I have used El Dorado, and really liked it.

I would be hesitant to use any actual pineapple in your brewing process. If any at all I would consider using a few drops of pineapple extract added when adding one of your dry hop additions, but less may be more. I would try it without any, then experiment from there if you aren't happy with it.

El Dorado® is an exceptional new dual-purpose hop with both high Alpha Acid and intense flavors and aromas. As a bittering hop, El Dorado® lends a firm but balanced bitterness. When used in later additions, El Dorado® brings bright tropical fruit flavors and aromas of pineapple, pear, watermelon, and stone fruit.

 

[SCoutdoors]

I've been going back and forth on the pineapple juice as don't want it too extreme. I'll go with your opinion and brew without and can always try another batch later with for comparison

 

[Craigerrr]

I've been going back and forth on the pineapple juice as don't want it too extreme. I'll go with your opinion and brew without and can always try another batch later with for comparison

What are you using for water?
Tap water? RO water?

 

[SCoutdoors]

Store bought distilled water is what we usually use. Honestly haven't tried anything different yet

 

[Craigerrr]

Store bought distilled water is what we usually use. Honestly haven't tried anything different yet

That is good. I consider water an ingredient, and it is 99% of the beer in the end, so I am good with paying for it.
If you add the minerals listed in my recipe to the mash water that will get you close to the water profile shown there.
That will help with the flavor and mouth feel of the end product.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Lastly reduced o2 at packaging.
You bottling or kegging.
I'd go some Metabisulphate/ascorbic acid on the packaging side of things the help with storage stability.
But of course purging your recieving vesal of o2 abd closed transfer will help along was in keeping your hazy fresh and bursting with hop goodness.

 

[SCoutdoors]

I'll be kegging into one of my corny kegs to place into my kegerator.

 

[SCoutdoors]

That is good. I consider water an ingredient, and it is 99% of the beer in the end, so I am good with paying for it.
If you add the minerals listed in my recipe to the mash water that will get you close to the water profile shown there.
That will help with the flavor and mouth feel of the end product.

@Craigerrr sorry to beat a dead horse but want to make sure I have my water profile as best as possible. I am brewing a 5 gal batch with distilled water. 3.8 Gal mash water and 5 Gal strike water.

I have seen three different profile water additions for Distilled Water.
Yours:
9.1 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
0.6 g — Canning Salt (NaCl) — Mash
1.5 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
1.5 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash

Another I found online:
Mash
5G CaCL
2.4G Gypsum

Sparge
5G CaCL
2.4G Gypsum

Boil
4.5G MgSO (Epsom Salt)
1.6G NaCl (Canning Salt)

And lastly, after entering my recipe into Brewfather and setting the water to distilled it suggested:
Mash
2.42g Baking Soda
2.75g Calcium Chloride
2.09g Epsom Salt
2.75g Gypsum

Sparge
3.49g Baking Soda
3.96g Calcium Chloride
3.01g Epsom Salt
3.96g Gypsum

Brewfathers profile gives: Ca2 100, Mg2 15, Na 48, Cl 96, SO4 170, and HCO3 124

Should I go with what Brewfather suggests based on my recipe or use one of the other suggestions? Thanks!

 

[Craigerrr]

@Craigerrr sorry to beat a dead horse but want to make sure I have my water profile as best as possible. I am brewing a 5 gal batch with distilled water. 3.8 Gal mash water and 5 Gal strike water.

I have seen three different profile water additions for Distilled Water.
Yours:
9.1 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
0.6 g — Canning Salt (NaCl) — Mash
1.5 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
1.5 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash

Another I found online:
Mash
5G CaCL
2.4G Gypsum

Sparge
5G CaCL
2.4G Gypsum

Boil
4.5G MgSO (Epsom Salt)
1.6G NaCl (Canning Salt)

And lastly, after entering my recipe into Brewfather and setting the water to distilled it suggested:
Mash
2.42g Baking Soda
2.75g Calcium Chloride
2.09g Epsom Salt
2.75g Gypsum

Sparge
3.49g Baking Soda
3.96g Calcium Chloride
3.01g Epsom Salt
3.96g Gypsum

Brewfathers profile gives: Ca2 100, Mg2 15, Na 48, Cl 96, SO4 170, and HCO3 124

Should I go with what Brewfather suggests based on my recipe or use one of the other suggestions? Thanks!

Could you post a link to your recipe in Brewfather?

 

[SCoutdoors]

Could you post a link to your recipe in Brewfather?

Hopefully this works aka I think I did this right. If not I can export as pdf and attach here.

https://web.brewfather.app/tabs/recipes/recipe/Wi35MpE9pSxyNA7X1ssOm4Q9x7t7Zn

 

[Craigerrr]

Hopefully this works aka I think I did this right. If not I can export as pdf and attach here.

https://web.brewfather.app/tabs/recipes/recipe/Wi35MpE9pSxyNA7X1ssOm4Q9x7t7Zn

The link just takes me to my Brewfather recipes page.
If you toggle your recipe to read mode you should be able to copy and paste like I did above

 

[SCoutdoors]

The link just takes me to my Brewfather recipes page.
If you toggle your recipe to read mode you should be able to copy and paste like I did above

I had a feeling that link wasn't right. Here is a copy of the recipe text. Finally gonna get a chance to brew it next Friday.


Mash Water: 5.06 gal
Sparge Water: 2.29 gal
Total Water: 7.35 gal
Boil Volume: 6.28 gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.053

Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.064
Final Gravity: 1.015
IBU (Tinseth): 34
BU/GU: 0.53
Color: 5.5 SRM

Mash
Strike Temp — 161.2 °F
Temperature — 152 °F — 60 min

Malts (11 lb 8 oz)
9 lb (78.3%) — Briess Pale Ale Malt 2-Row — Grain — 3.5 °L — Mash
1 lb (8.7%) — Oats, Flaked — Grain — 1.3 °L
1 lb (8.7%) — Wheat Flaked — Grain — 1.7 °L — Mash
8 oz (4.4%) — Briess Carapils — Grain — 1.5 °L

Other (1 lb)
8 oz — Milk Sugar (Lactose) — Sugar — 0 °L — Boil — 10 min
8 oz — Briess Rice Hulls — Adjunct — 0 °L

Hops (15 oz)
2 oz (11 IBU) — Azacca 15% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 170 °F
2 oz (11 IBU) — El Dorado 15% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 170 °F
2 oz (9 IBU) — Mosaic 12.25% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 170 °F
1 oz (3 IBU) — Citra 12% — Aroma — 10 min hopstand @ 170 °F
1 oz — BRU-1 15.7% — Dry Hop — day 0
1 oz — Citra 12% — Dry Hop — day 0
1 oz — Sultana (Denali) 14% — Dry Hop — day 0
1 oz — Vic Secret 15.5% — Dry Hop — day 0
1 oz — BRU-1 14% — Dry Hop — day 2
1 oz — El Dorado 15% — Dry Hop — day 2
1 oz — Sultana (Denali) 14% — Dry Hop — day 2
1 oz — Vic Secret 15.5% — Dry Hop — day 2

Hopstand at 170 °F

Miscs
2.42 g — Baking Soda (NaHCO3) — Mash
2.75 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
2.09 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
2.75 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
3.49 g — Baking Soda (NaHCO3) — Sparge
3.96 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
3.01 g — Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Sparge
3.96 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge
0.5 items — Whirlfloc — Boil — 10 min
1 tsp — Yeast Nutrient — Boil — 10 min
1 oz — Vanilla Extract — Primary

Yeast
1.7 pkg — Omega OYL-091 Hornindal Kveik 82%

Fermentation
Primary — 64.4 °F — 10 days

Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile
Ca2+
100
Mg2+
15
Na+
48
Cl-
96
SO42-
170
HCO3-
124

Mash Water: 3.8 Gal
Strike Water: 5 Gal
Total Water: 9 Gal

 

[Craigerrr]

A few things for you to consider

One
I would lose the baking soda, I personally only use baking soda when brewing something dark to deal with acidic roasted malts.

Two
You have your chloride and sulfate values reversed. The values you have there are good for an IPA where you want to bring out the bitterness of the hops, and bring more of a "crisp" mouth feel to the beer. It seems counter intuitive for a hop forward beer, but you want to downplay the bitterness, and bring out the soft mouthfeel of the malts, to accomplish this you want a Cl to SO ratio of 2:1 to 3:1, what you have there is approximately 0.5:1.
Your Water - Ca2+100, Mg2+15, Na+48, Cl-96, SO42-170, HCO3-124
Note my water profile from the above recipe, ratio is approximately 3:1
Water Profile
Ca2+ 100, Mg2+ 5 Na+ 16 Cl- 170 SO42- 51 HCO3- 16

Three
Higher mash temperature. For this style you want some residual sweetness. I personally mash around 156F for NEIPA.
Remember the goal of this beer isn't the haze, the goal is the flavor, aroma, and mouth feel. The haze is just the byproduct.

 

[SCoutdoors]

A few things for you to consider

One
I would lose the baking soda, I personally only use baking soda when brewing something dark to deal with acidic roasted malts.

Two
You have your chloride and sulfate values reversed. The values you have there are good for an IPA where you want to bring out the bitterness of the hops, and bring more of a "crisp" mouth feel to the beer. It seems counter intuitive for a hop forward beer, but you want to downplay the bitterness, and bring out the soft mouthfeel of the malts, to accomplish this you want a Cl to SO ratio of 2:1 to 3:1, what you have there is approximately 0.5:1.
Your Water - Ca2+100, Mg2+15, Na+48, Cl-96, SO42-170, HCO3-124
Note my water profile from the above recipe, ratio is approximately 3:1
Water Profile
Ca2+ 100, Mg2+ 5 Na+ 16 Cl- 170 SO42- 51 HCO3- 16

Three
Higher mash temperature. For this style you want some residual sweetness. I personally mash around 156F for NEIPA.
Remember the goal of this beer isn't the haze, the goal is the flavor, aroma, and mouth feel. The haze is just the byproduct.

Man you are a life saver I would have not been happy to go by what the recipe built and it be off. I will make adjustments accordingly and mash temp. Thanks again

 

[Craigerrr]

No worries, good luck with it.