Sulfate.

[Dopeydog]

Good day.
I have done a lot of reading on water chemistry but cannot find an answer about raising just the sulfate level. I had my home water tested at Simple Labs. and most ions are in an acceptable level, with the exception of SO4. At 2.9 ppm. I find this extremely low and do not know how I can raise this without affecting other levels; say by adding Gypsum which will also increase the Calcium. Any answer to help will be much appreciated.

 

[dmtaylor]

You could use sulfuric acid. But, given the risks with handling sulfuric acid, I would not recommend it.

Anyway, calcium is good for yeast, and doesn't have much flavor. Gypsum truly is the best form of sulfate you can use.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

As long as your calcium totals are below 125ppm, you’re good.

You can also dilute with distilled or RO water and add water salts to get to the levels you’re looking for.

What are your calcium levels?

 

[Dopeydog]

Calcium is 36.8 ppm. so yes I can add Gypsum and I did add 3 tsp. to a 5G homebrew today. I just thought there might be a solution to add a chemical to increase just the sulfate ; when I look at other cities, word wide, I don't understand how my water has only 3ppm. SO4. I posted my water analysis today.

 

[Dopeydog]

You could use sulfuric acid. But, given the risks with handling sulfuric acid, I would not recommend it.

Anyway, calcium is good for yeast, and doesn't have much flavor. Gypsum truly is the best form of sulfate you can use.

Thanks Dave. Yes, I remember reading about commercial brewers using sulfuric acid ; not for me ! I just don't get that my water test showed only 3ppm. for sulfate. When I look at world wide cities and a balanced profile @ 80. it makes a brewer's life difficult. Why so low ? I think I should have another test done.

 

[Zambi]

You could look at magnesium sulphate..
I just don't know if there is a food safe version of it (and of course, that would increase magnesium)
Or sodium sulphate?

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks Dave. Yes, I remember reading about commercial brewers using sulfuric acid ; not for me ! I just don't get that my water test showed only 3ppm. for sulfate. When I look at world wide cities and a balanced profile @ 80. it makes a brewer's life difficult. Why so low ? I think I should have another test done.

I've heard some say that you need to multiply the result from some labs by 3 to get an accurate number. But in your case even if you multiply 3 x 3 = 9, the number is still very low. Who knows why... I suppose you just have a very low sulfate source for your water, kind of like Pilsen does. Lucky you.

 

[Megary]

I've heard some say that you need to multiply the result from some labs by 3 to get an accurate number. But in your case even if you multiply 3 x 3 = 9, the number is still very low. Who knows why... I suppose you just have a very low sulfate source for your water, kind of like Pilsen does. Lucky you.

This is my understanding, which might very well be wrong:

Ward Labs, the most common place homebrewers get their water tested, reports Sulfate Sulfur, "SO4-S", which is Sulfate in terms of the Sulfur component only. They are mainly an agricultural testing company and SO4-S is apparently what is most important.... agriculturally.

Molecular weights:
S = 32
O = 16
SO4 = 32 + (16*4) = 96

So, to convert just the "SO4-S" (which is just the Sulfur), to "SO4" we need to multiply the "S" by 3.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Now, as to the OP, I don't know how the Sulfate was reported...may or may not have to multiply by 3.

And to your point, it wouldn't matter much anyway.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Whatever it is, it is probably a whole lot better than what I have in my house. That is why I use spring water. That shit is $1.33 a gallon now too.
Publix is basically out of control anyway, but I don't like shopping at Walmart.

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

You could look at magnesium sulphate..
I just don't know if there is a food safe version of it (and of course, that would increase magnesium)
Or sodium sulphate?

Epsom Salt is Magnesium Sulfate. But be careful not to raise the Magnesium over 40ppm or you'll flirt with inducing a diuretic effect! (mileage will vary by person of course) While that sounds scary and risky, Magnesium Sulfate is MgSO4, so you'll get lots of Sulfate ppm compared to Magnesium. I don't often use it but when I do, I get close to my targets with all other salts, and then if my Sulfate is still too low, I'll bump it with Epsom Salt. It usually doesn't require more than 1–3g for a 5 gallon batch (striking about 8 gallons) and the highest I've seen the resulting Magnesium is maybe upper 20s ppm.

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

Calcium is 36.8 ppm. so yes I can add Gypsum and I did add 3 tsp. to a 5G homebrew today. I just thought there might be a solution to add a chemical to increase just the sulfate ; when I look at other cities, word wide, I don't understand how my water has only 3ppm. SO4. I posted my water analysis today.

That level of Calcium is too low for brewing. (in my humble opinion) You are in no danger using Gypsum for adjustments, and I'd even recommend it. I've had several local pro brewers (who were also homebrewers) tell me they target a minimum of 80ppm Calcium, but some shoot for 100. I started with 80, but now target 100 because I've found anything less is 'off' in the final result. Those beers I brewed with less Calcium were lackluster, and didn't have good 'egg-drop soup' hot-breaks like when I adjust to 100. I find it also critical for clarity. (if that's your thing)

My usual salt adjustments go in this order:

Calcium Chloride until my Chloride is on target
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) until my Calcium is on target

-those two usually suffice for about 90% of styles I brew, for the rest:

Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) if needed to boost Sulfate to target
Table Salt (Sodium Chloride) if I couldn't get Chloride close enough without vastly overshooting Calcium, and then this is rare, and used sparingly. (keeping the Sodium under 50ppm if I can)

I don't bother with Baking Soda or Slaked Lime as those are too difficult to dissolve as they want to precipitate out too easily, especially with temperature and pH changes.

I use 80% Phosphoric acid to make final pH adjustments as my tap water is usually in the 8–8.4 range, and I have found the amount of Citric Acid needed to tame that down would be over the sensory threshold for tartness.

I have friends who regularly cut in Distilled/RO or even start with that and cut in tap water when they are brewing styles that are hard to hit with our tap water otherwise, like Kölsch. Our local water is pretty good though with little adjustments for anything Amber or darker.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

you can go up to 150 calcium for an ipa, it’s very common so don't let levels scare you, just add your Gypsum and Calcium Chloride at a level you’re comfortable with, you only know that with trial and error, good luck

 

[Zambi]

One day I'll start adjusting my water...
For now: I make pretty decent beer (I think) while adjusting nothing.
My water is hippo poo enriched riverwater
All values are low.
And it is actually safe to drink even without boiling

 

[west1m]

Hippo Poo. Mmmm... yummy
Granola bars right from the faucet.

 

[Dopeydog]

Thank you all for those informative, interesting, and not incongruous answers. In - - what ? Well I have been making decent beer, drinkable at least for about 10 years. I prefer amber ales, but just for a challenge I wanted to try a stout; it's in the fermenter right now; blow-off tube attached on day three. Two doses of Safale SO5. I have a really basic question. In all the recipies I read, there is no mention of priming sugar for bottling. Do I need it or is the lactose in the boil enough for carbonating my brew ? Well, I have about a week to hear if I need sugar . Here's to a milk stout, smooth, quaffable, and a left hand shake.

 

[Zambi]

Yeah, if you are bottling you need sugar to carb.
Theoretically you could bottle the beer before it is finished fermenting, but because you don't know exactly where fermentation will finish you might end up with bottle bombs.
Sugar (or any other sugar source) is your best bet

 

[dmtaylor]

Lactose is not fermentable by yeast. For bottling, you should add priming sugar in bulk in the bottling bucket at a rate of about 4.1 oz per 5 gallons (115 g per 19 L). Boil the sugar ahead in a quart of water, cool, then add to the beer prior to bottling, taking care to mix well to ensure consistent dosing and carbonation.

 

[Dopeydog]

Lactose is not fermentable by yeast. For bottling, you should add priming sugar in bulk in the bottling bucket at a rate of about 4.1 oz per 5 gallons (115 g per 19 L). Boil the sugar ahead in a quart of water, cool, then add to the beer prior to bottling, taking care to mix well to ensure consistent dosing and carbonation.

Thank you for that info. 4.1 oz. or 115 g. Great, is there an ideal time when to add the lactose to the boil or does it matter ?

 

[dmtaylor]

Thank you for that info. 4.1 oz. or 115 g. Great, is there an ideal time when to add the lactose to the boil or does it matter ?

I prefer to add lactose at the same time as the priming sugar. This way you can adjust the amount based on your own sense of taste. Let the fermentation happen first, then take a taste of the finished product just before you bottle it, and adjust the amount added with your priming sugar based on how much you think you need for the sweetness level that you want in the final carbonated beer. If the beer already tastes sort of sweet, you won't need very much lactose at all. In that case I would use 0.25 to 0.5 lb per 5 gallons (115 to 230 g per 19 L). If the beer tastes very thin and needs a lot of sweetness, then use 0.75 to 1 lb per 5 gallons (340 to 450 g per 19 L). If you are not sure how much to use, about 0.5 to 0.75 lb or 250-300 g is probably a good moderate amount in 5 gal (19 L).

 

[Craigerrr]

Quick question for you @Dopeydog , is the tap water you are using chlorinated?
If so, are you using anything to neutralize it?