Step by Step homebrewing from extract - need verification and clarification

[gabik]

I am sorry for the long thread, but I am digging the net for few days now and did not find such a "tutorial", so I will built my own and want to share it.
I will be happy you comment/correct me, and I have some questions at the end.

So I brew few amber ale from extract kit (very successfully) and want to try something new.
I want to brew wheat beer with honey, and wish it will be as clear as possible (I know wheat beer should get the haze, but I am trying something here

I am using this recipe with small amount of changes. my steps should be:

1. Heat 21 Litre (5.5 Gallon) of water to 70 C (155F)
2. Take the flaked wheat and oats, put it in a steeping bag and steep the grains for 30 minutes
3. Take out the bag of grain and wash it with small amount of water at 80C (175F) - few times with ladle - not squeezing the bag.
4. Get to boiling point
5. Add the DME once the water is boiling and mix it.
6. Add hops for 60 mins (the only one in this recipe)
7. In the last 15 mins add the immersion chiller for sanitizing.
8. Add Honey and orange peel
9. Add whirlfloc tab
10. After 15 mins turn the flame out.
11. Start chilling
12. Rehydrate the yeast with 110 ML (4 oz) - 40C (105F) of the wort for 15 minutes.
13. Once the wort is 24C (75F) whirlpool it and start siphoning it to the primary fermentation without trub as you can.
14. Stir the wort to add oxygen
15. Take OG value
16. Add the rehydrated yeasts
17. Close, add the airlock, and put it for few days in 22C (70F)
18. After the bubbles in the airlock are at much lower rate (±5 days), take gravity value once a day.
19. After 2 days with no change transfer it to secondary (slowly, not to oxygen).
20. Take FG value and calculate ABV
21. Give it another ±10 days.
22. Cold crash for 3 days at 2-3C (35-37F)
23. Boil 2 cups of water and add 220g (7.7oz) of corn sugar (calculator). Let it cool to 25C (77F)
24. Add it to the priming bucket, and slowly siphon the beer from the secondary (without trub as possible).
25. Bottle it.
26. Give it another 2 weeks at 22C (70F)
27. Cold it to 3C (37F) 24 hours before drinking.
28. Enjoy

What do you think about the process and steps?
My questions for perfectly understand the process are:

• Full boil or partial boil? I read a lot of pro and cons, but if I understand correctly, clearer and tastier beer will be a result of full boil wort.
• Should I use Gelatin after transferring to secondary for clearer beer? or will the affect be very tiny and not worth it?
• What will happens if I will use Lager dried yeasts instead of Ale, will it be clearer? of course I will use Lager fermentation rules (temperature, diacetyl rest, lagering). in general - can Ale or any other beer can be made with Lager yeasts?
• Should I use DME or LME? If I am understood correctly, DME will give me lower SRM, right? any other differences?
• Will late adding the extract (DME or LME) will help the beer to be clearer or lighter in color?
• Should I use yeasts nutrient? When should I consider to use it with dried yeasts?

I know it is not common to publish such a huge detailed question, but I wanted to gather it all in one place for the new brewers as well.

Thanks in advance.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I am sorry for the long thread, but I am digging the net for few days now and did not find such a "tutorial", so I will built my own and want to share it.
I will be happy you comment/correct me, and I have some questions at the end.

So I brew few amber ale from extract kit (very successfully) and want to try something new.
I want to brew wheat beer with honey, and wish it will be as clear as possible (I know wheat beer should get the haze, but I am trying something here

I am using this recipe with small amount of changes. my steps should be:

1. Heat 21 Litre (5.5 Gallon) of water to 70 C (155F)
2. Take the flaked wheat and oats, put it in a steeping bag and steep the grains for 30 minutes
3. Take out the bag of grain and wash it with small amount of water at 80C (175F) - few times with ladle - not squeezing the bag.
4. Get to boiling point
5. Add the DME once the water is boiling and mix it.
6. Add hops for 60 mins (the only one in this recipe)
7. In the last 15 mins add the immersion chiller for sanitizing.
8. Add Honey and orange peel
9. Add whirlfloc tab
10. After 15 mins turn the flame out.
11. Start chilling
12. Rehydrate the yeast with 110 ML (4 oz) - 40C (105F) of the wort for 15 minutes.
13. Once the wort is 24C (75F) whirlpool it and start siphoning it to the primary fermentation without trub as you can.
14. Stir the wort to add oxygen
15. Take OG value
16. Add the rehydrated yeasts
17. Close, add the airlock, and put it for few days in 22C (70F)
18. After the bubbles in the airlock are at much lower rate (±5 days), take gravity value once a day.
19. After 2 days with no change transfer it to secondary (slowly, not to oxygen).
20. Take FG value and calculate ABV
21. Give it another ±10 days.
22. Cold crash for 3 days at 2-3C (35-37F)
23. Boil 2 cups of water and add 220g (7.7oz) of corn sugar (calculator). Let it cool to 25C (77F)
24. Add it to the priming bucket, and slowly siphon the beer from the secondary (without trub as possible).
25. Bottle it.
26. Give it another 2 weeks at 22C (70F)
27. Cold it to 3C (37F) 24 hours before drinking.
28. Enjoy

What do you think about the process and steps?
My questions for perfectly understand the process are:

• Full boil or partial boil? I read a lot of pro and cons, but if I understand correctly, clearer and tastier beer will be a result of full boil wort.
• Should I use Gelatin after transferring to secondary for clearer beer? or will the affect be very tiny and not worth it?
• What will happens if I will use Lager dried yeasts instead of Ale, will it be clearer? of course I will use Lager fermentation rules (temperature, diacetyl rest, lagering). in general - can Ale or any other beer can be made with Lager yeasts?
• Should I use DME or LME? If I am understood correctly, DME will give me lower SRM, right? any other differences?
• Will late adding the extract (DME or LME) will help the beer to be clearer or lighter in color?
• Should I use yeasts nutrient? When should I consider to use it with dried yeasts?

I know it is not common to publish such a huge detailed question, but I wanted to gather it all in one place for the new brewers as well.

Thanks in advance.

Wow what a post!
First off im not sure if the stepped grain will be able to convert itself half wheat half oats whats the DP of your mash? It may well be fine wheat has plwnry Diastic power oats zilch.

I dont brew with extract so not sure what best method to get lowest lovibond result. I know a good 60min full volume boil will help with protien coagulation and to drive of any DMS in your wort. I also know that geletin is a great dinning agent added when beer is chilled to 0C ish and added at to drop out haze and any solids its either + charged or - i cant remember now but it attracts its opposite and drops out solution.
Im not sure oats will help in clarity department?
Dont use a lager yeast youse your hefe yeast the lager ueast dont aid in clarity but the (Lagering of the beer) cold storage over extended period.

Pilsn malt is lowest lovibond malt i know of as is Wheat so if you can find these in extract form stick with them. I fond the DME i use for starters gives me a golden beer you want a paler brew than this?

Sounds like youve been around the block a few times in regards to extract brewing mate and im sure youll find some helpfull help froms other brews info. Cheers looking forward to seeing how this brew takes shape.

 

[gabik]

Thanks for the reply!

Wow what a post!
First off im not sure if the stepped grain will be able to convert itself half wheat half oats whats the DP of your mash? It may well be fine wheat has plwnry Diastic power oats zilch.

Just found this:
"Starches do not have cell walls. They are relatively small molecules and they need to be converted by the enzymes in a mash or mini-mash into sugars that the yeast can ferment. Simply steeping flaked wheat and oats will add unconverted starch that will not be fermented and will probably make the beer cloudy. If you add a pound or two of 2-row (or even wheat malt if you'd like) to the steep, the enzymes from the base malt will convert the starches from the wheat and oats. Just be aware that you may need to remove some of the malt extract since the 2-row will add extra gravity to the wort.",

So I should have some malted grains (like pilsen - or any other light grains) in the bag, to eliminate the need for using mashing techniques, right?

Dont use a lager yeast youse your hefe yeast the lager ueast dont aid in clarity but the (Lagering of the beer) cold storage over extended period.

So I will use ale yeasts and do longer cold crash?
Do I need yeasts nutrients?

 

[GFHomebrew]

Thanks for the reply!



Just found this:
"Starches do not have cell walls. They are relatively small molecules and they need to be converted by the enzymes in a mash or mini-mash into sugars that the yeast can ferment. Simply steeping flaked wheat and oats will add unconverted starch that will not be fermented and will probably make the beer cloudy. If you add a pound or two of 2-row (or even wheat malt if you'd like) to the steep, the enzymes from the base malt will convert the starches from the wheat and oats. Just be aware that you may need to remove some of the malt extract since the 2-row will add extra gravity to the wort.",

So I should have some malted grains (like pilsen - or any other light grains) in the bag, to eliminate the need for using mashing techniques, right?


So I will use ale yeasts and do longer cold crash?
Do I need yeasts nutrients?

There are enzymes in some grains wheat and barley are two buts oats ain't one of them they convert the carbohydrates into sugars. But if there aren't enough enzymes being provided to the mash from diastic powered malted grains the conversion of these starches will be incomplete resulting in what you've found above online.

I cold crash 3 days add geletin in primary fermentation vessel once beer temp is at 0c I wait three days or whenever I do find time to get my but into gear and transfer into keg. Depending on style I then also add more geletin at time of transfer to keg. Then comes the conditioning which further developes them clean crisp balanced malty beautiful beery flavours we so much love and adore it prevents our functioning well behind a MOTORCYLE ! Ok off topic and this conditioning AIDS in beer clarification oh not them AIDS these aides whoops .

Good luck see what the other Brewers have to say on this weizen...

 

[Myndflyte]

Thanks for the reply!



Just found this:
"Starches do not have cell walls. They are relatively small molecules and they need to be converted by the enzymes in a mash or mini-mash into sugars that the yeast can ferment. Simply steeping flaked wheat and oats will add unconverted starch that will not be fermented and will probably make the beer cloudy. If you add a pound or two of 2-row (or even wheat malt if you'd like) to the steep, the enzymes from the base malt will convert the starches from the wheat and oats. Just be aware that you may need to remove some of the malt extract since the 2-row will add extra gravity to the wort.",

So I should have some malted grains (like pilsen - or any other light grains) in the bag, to eliminate the need for using mashing techniques, right?


So I will use ale yeasts and do longer cold crash?
Do I need yeasts nutrients?

If you want to make a wheat beer, use some wheat DME instead of the flaked wheat, otherwise, add some 2-row to your grain bill and do a mini-mash. Don't use lager yeast unless you making that type of beer. A Hefe yeast is perfect for a wheat beer. As for yeast nutrients, they aren't necessary. If I remember correctly, it's actually ok to make the Hefe yeast work a little bit because they'll give you more of the banana and clove esters. Also, don't freak out when your beer smells like sulfur while it's fermenting. Hefe yeasts can do that.

Also, don't be afraid of mashing techniques, especially if you're doing a mini-mash. It's like steeping, only you hit a different temp and hold it there for an hour. But if this is your first beer, sometimes it's better to keep it on the easier side.

 

[AsharaDayne]

That's a very complete guide and looks good. Here's my two cents:

Perhaps you could provide alternate steps for the more lazy extract brewer, such as I:
I don't to secondary, just leave everything for about three weeks.
I start taking gravity after 1.5 weeks, not before (why waste those precious centiliters
I don't use any further refinements (gelatin or whatever) and I think I get reasonably clear beers. Although that might just be because I pretty much only use Nottingham and Safale S-04, other yeasts may need help to clear up...

LME is darker than DME as a rule. The longer you boil the wort, the darker it gets.
Since I only have a relatively small pot, I always do partial boils with late additions. I can't say how much of a difference it makes compared to a full wort boil... I've heard the brew may take a bit longer to "balance" out.
Concerning late extract addition, I usually do add half of the extract at the end of boil. I think it's easier. Plus if you boil with the full extract complement, you'll need more hops for your IBUs.

 

[Nosybear]

Wow, lots of stuff here! First, if you can get your hands on a copy of John Palmer's "How to Brew", the first chapter is a tutorial on how to do extract and steep brewing. All that aside, I see a few flaws in your process.

First, when you're getting ready to steep your grains, mix half your DME into the liquor and steep in that wort. There's a rather technical reason for doing that - you don't want your pH so high that your steep extracts astringent flavors from the grain.

Second, your method of adding DME is a recipe for scorched wort. Always turn the heat off before adding extract, either dry or liquid. Scorched extract tastes very bad and is very difficult to get out of your kettle.

Aside from that, your process looks fairly solid. So, full vs. partial boil: I prefer full boils. Partial boils require more hops as the more concentrated wort leads to worse conversion efficiency and darker color in the finished beer. But I started with partial boils. Gelatin is worthwhile if you're doing very light beers for competition. Key there is you have to let the beer go through primary and secondary, then chill it to near freezing before using the gelatin. Lager vs Ale yeast? All dependent on your fermentation temperature, somewhat. If you use lager yeast at ale temperatures, you'll get an ale-tasting beer, higher esters and a risk of some spicy phenolic compounds forming. If you use an ale yeast at lager temperatures, I'd predict a stuck fermentation - ale yeasts don't like the low temperatures - but if you ferment on the low end of the ale yeast's tolerance, you'll get a "cleaner" beer with less fruity ester flavors. You're correct on the difference between LME and DME. DME will result in a lighter beer and if you add it late, say half in your steeping liquor and half in the last 10 minutes, you will get a lighter beer. And finally, yeast nutrient won't hurt but it's not necessary outside of yeast starters, which I didn't see in your process.

Trialben is right on the conversion question: Steeping won't convert unmalted grain. You'll get the famous silky mouthfeel from the unmalted grain - unconverted glucan gums cause that - but you won't get any fermentable contribution from the unmalted stuff. If you add the pound of barley malt, you're doing a mini-mash (congratulations and welcome to the all-grain world!). 155 degrees sounds about right and in that case, I'd use water only, not adding any of the DME to my steeping liquor.

Looks like you've thought this through very well. Brewing is a bunch of trade-offs, compromises, changes in one place that have effect in another. The rabbit hole has no end so welcome to the journey!

 

[gabik]

Also, don't be afraid of mashing techniques, especially if you're doing a mini-mash. It's like steeping, only you hit a different temp and hold it there for an hour. But if this is your first beer, sometimes it's better to keep it on the easier side.

I will try to do mini-mash in the future, I have no all-grains equipement right now..

That's a very complete guide and looks good

Thanks Dayne, I took your comments, will convert to partial boil and use DME as late extract.

First, when you're getting ready to steep your grains, mix half your DME into the liquor and steep in that wort. There's a rather technical reason for doing that - you don't want your pH so high that your steep extracts astringent flavors from the grain.

Will adding DME before steeping the flaked wheat and oats helps to get the needed sugar for the yeasts?
If I understood it correctly, using malted grains for steeping will extract the needed sugars anyway, no DME needed, right?
any reason not to use "malted wheat" (if there is such thing)?

If you add the pound of barley malt, you're doing a mini-mash

I will wait with that for my nexts brews, and promise to add another post with step-by-step for verifications here
The world of all-grain is a bit scary for me, as I am not sure I am understanding the "chemical" process very well for now..



I will start the process next week and will upload some pictures and comment here.

Thank you all

 

[Nosybear]

Adding the DME or LME before steeping helps control the pH, limits extraction of astringent tannins. And yes, there is such a thing as wheat malt but using it won't get you the same results as flaked wheat! Wheat malt is a base malt, it has enough enzymes in it to convert itself and a lot of other adjuncts - at least its own weight in adjuncts. But it's a malt: Most of the gums have been broken down in malting. Flaked wheat is a grain, unmalted, its starches gelatinized so they will dissolve when mixed with water and be converted by any enzymes that might be in the mash. Flaked wheat and wheat malt are not interchangeable.