No carbonation from bottled Imperial Stout

[Megary]

Last night, I opened two bottles of an Imperial Stout I brewed earlier this year.

4 months after packaging, this beer is essentially as flat as the day it went into the bottle. Hmm.
Beer was brewed on 12/31/22 and fermented from 1.114 --->1.027.
Beer was packaged on 1/21/23 after 3 weeks in primary.
- 22oz bottles were primed with 1.5 Cooper's carbonation drops each.
- 1tsp Vanilla extract was added to each bottle.
- Capped as usual with O2 scavenging caps.
- Set in basement closet at 67°
On 2/5, I waxed the caps of all 11 bottles, mostly for aesthetics but also for a little more O2 protection.

So...
1. What went wrong? For the record, the flat beer tastes very good. My son and I both thought that there was a great beer there, but for the carbonation. As for the amount and usage of the carb drops, all I can say is that I've had great success using these in my yearly Barleywine (12oz bottles, 1 drop each, those). No issues. Were 1.5 drops not enough for 22oz bombers? Maybe. And I can understand if the bottles were UNDER-carbonated. But these are not carbed at all. Not even the slightest "pfft" from the caps upon opening. I can't rule out poor packaging, though this is the first time I have had an issue with bottles not carbonating. Did the dip in hot wax mess with the cap's seal? I can't buy that either, mainly because the beer has no stale off-flavors and the caps appeared to be sealed correctly. My guess is that the yeast, after 3 weeks in primary, was simply tapped out. I can point a finger at the storage temp of 67° and say that wasn't warm enough either...but again...nothing?

2. More importantly, what do I do with the remaining 9 bottles, all apparently flat, of promising Imperial Stout?
Flush 'em?. (Seems too early for that)
Do I give these bottles the "shake and bake" treatment, turning them upside down a few times and getting them into the mid-lower 70's?
Do I open every waxed cap, add a bit of dry yeast and re-cap?
Do I just pour all the bottles into a keg and force carb?
Something else?
Thinking them through, all options seem to have clear drawbacks. But I've got nothing to lose.

(Also posted on the AHA forum as I'm looking for any and all suggestions!)

 

[Minbari]

I would vote for open, sprinkle and recap option. Maybe add a bit of sugar too?

If it tastes good, it can be recovered. Dumping wouldn't be on the list. Hell i would use soda steamer before that, lol

 

[GFHomebrew]

You've tried a couple Megary?

Oh I see you tried two if they were both flat there's a good chance the rest are.

Inverting to rouse the yeast might be the best approach as no opening required.

Then I'd go the sprinkle of yeast approach as minibari said it should be a pretty easy exercise as their all flat.

If you wanna be heaps anal you could set up some gas line to purge the headspace after yeast sprinkle and re capping.
Maybe 2 seconds at 2psi - two man job one opens sprinkles then passes to the other on the purger then back for the capping...

 

[Ward Chillington]

I don't do the sugar tabs but what about the temperature during the fermentation and the amount of sugar to carb things up? Was one and a half tablets enough?

 

[Herm brews]

That is a huge beer, what yeast did you use? Did the yeast give their all, with none left to carbonate? Don’t dump it! Try to figure the way to salvage this one, which could teach you how to overcome this issue with a future batch.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Champagne yeast maybe

Then again would be scared it'd carbonate a little too much then

 

[Megary]

Thanks for all the replies!

The fermentation yeast was Scottish Ale WY1728 and it knocked out a very respectable 76% attenuation. Can't ask for more than that on a beer this size. At over 11%, the beer understandably had a boozy alcoholic warmth to it, but rich, dark Stout/Porter flavors were shining through. I was quite happy with the taste of this beer and certainly don't want to dump it.

It seems that popping the caps off (good thing I took the time to wax all of these bottles! ) and adding a bit more yeast (and sugar) is the way to go, but it definitely gives me pause.

Since there was no carbonation at all, does that mean that the sugar from the carbonation drops is still floating around, waiting to be eaten? So should I or shouldn't I add a bit more sugar to each bottle along with the fresh yeast?

If I end up with too much carbonation because I now have too much fermentable sugar in the bottle, I'm looking at over-carbonation or worse yet...bottle bombs.

But, if I don't add more sugar and the new yeast does nothing, then I'll be right back where I started from.

As far as the bottle conditioning yeast goes, Lallemand CBC-1 seems like a decent choice. Or, I have an extra pack of BRY-97 lying around.

 

[Zambi]

Tricky one and not hindered by too much knowledge:
Probably exhausted yeast. Open a bottle and do a hydrometer (or refractometer) reading. You should then know if there is enough sugar left.

And that test bottle will be awesome for cooking with (check Carbonade de Flamand).

Otherwise keg or sodastreamer.
Keg could be with spunding valve

 

[GFHomebrew]

11% abv might be right up there on the yeasts alcohol tolerance there Megary.

So dead setnafter running the marathon and fermenting that beer it simply didn't have anything left to give to carbonate the beer.

I'd check the alcohol tolerance on BRY97.
Oh OK 13%

Great idea @Zambezi Special that'll tell you if the carbonation sugar is still in solution you don't want overcabonated barley wine.

 

[Donoroto]

My $0.02: Do NOT dump a good beer! Keg is the most sure-fire way, if possible. Carb cap for a couple of 2 liter soda bottles is next. Last is open, add yeast, and re cap.

At 11%, there are few yeasts I'd trust to do the job without going overboard.

 

[Megary]

My $0.02: Do NOT dump a good beer! Keg is the most sure-fire way, if possible. Carb cap for a couple of 2 liter soda bottles is next. Last is open, add yeast, and re cap.

At 11%, there are few yeasts I'd trust to do the job without going overboard.

Thanks for the reply.

My first thought was to keg the beer also. Seems relatively fool proof. But…given I only have room for two kegs, do I want to tie up one with an “occasional” 11%er? The beauty of a beer like this is to pull one out for that special treat every few months or so, not to consistently push through a keg. Not out of the question, but I’d prefer to keep the beer in bottles, if possible.

Carb capping is unfortunately not in my wheelhouse.

Seems like I’ve settled on uncapping, adding yeast (and sugar?!), then recapping. Since the beers seem in good order other than the carbonation, I don’t feel rushed. I probably won’t do anything for a few weeks.

 

[Minbari]

Thanks for the reply.

My first thought was to keg the beer also. Seems relatively fool proof. But…given I only have room for two kegs, do I want to tie up one with an “occasional” 11%er? The beauty of a beer like this is to pull one out for that special treat every few months or so, not to consistently push through a keg. Not out of the question, but I’d prefer to keep the beer in bottles, if possible.

Carb capping is unfortunately not in my wheelhouse.

Seems like I’ve settled on uncapping, adding yeast (and sugar?!), then recapping. Since the beers seem in good order other than the carbonation, I don’t feel rushed. I probably won’t do anything for a few weeks.

you dont have to tie up a keg though. keg it, carb it then bottle it from the keg. I do this all the time when sharing with friends.

 

[Sunfire96]

Thanks for the reply.

My first thought was to keg the beer also. Seems relatively fool proof. But…given I only have room for two kegs, do I want to tie up one with an “occasional” 11%er? The beauty of a beer like this is to pull one out for that special treat every few months or so, not to consistently push through a keg. Not out of the question, but I’d prefer to keep the beer in bottles, if possible.

Carb capping is unfortunately not in my wheelhouse.

Seems like I’ve settled on uncapping, adding yeast (and sugar?!), then recapping. Since the beers seem in good order other than the carbonation, I don’t feel rushed. I probably won’t do anything for a few weeks.

If it were me, I would uncap one and add a couple grams of the CBC yeast. Wait 2 weeks and see if there's enough residual sugar for the bottle conditioning yeast. If not, then you'll know if more sugar is needed. It's possible that every fermentable sugar has already been consumed, but I feel like this way you'll only ruin one bottle for experimentation. Especially if you're not in a rush

 

[Ward Chillington]

How about a SodaStream? It can be messy but you'd get some bubbles even from a couple of bursts!

If the alcohol is there you've got the preservation in place like wine plus whatever the hops are bringing to the mix so nothing should get a bug in it. Don't dump it, play with and learn! If you got a little sediment give a couple of bottles a twirl to get any yeasts back into solution and get them into warmer place say 75°or so for a week

 

[Donoroto]

Thanks for the reply.

My first thought was to keg the beer also. Seems relatively fool proof. But…given I only have room for two kegs, do I want to tie up one with an “occasional” 11%er? The beauty of a beer like this is to pull one out for that special treat every few months or so, not to consistently push through a keg. Not out of the question, but I’d prefer to keep the beer in bottles, if possible.

Carb capping is unfortunately not in my wheelhouse.

Seems like I’ve settled on uncapping, adding yeast (and sugar?!), then recapping. Since the beers seem in good order other than the carbonation, I don’t feel rushed. I probably won’t do anything for a few weeks.

Ah, that's the beauty of kegs: Carbonate it, then bottle it. Add 25% extra carb to account for the bottling process.

Edit: Ah, @Minbari beat me to it.

 

[Megary]

I think, for simplicity’s sake, popping the caps, adding a bit of yeast and recapping has to be my first attempt. No gear to sanitize and then clean afterwards.

As @Sunfire96 suggested, I’ll try this on one bottle first, wait a few weeks and see what I get. If it works, I’ll proceed with the rest. If not, I’ll add a bit of yeast AND sugar to another bottle, wait a few more weeks and see what I get.

If that fails as well, there won’t be much beer left so I’ll donate the rest to science.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

I think re-yeasting with CBC-1 is the way to go. I use CBC-1 when bottling a Wee Heavy or Woot Stout that has bulk conditioned for 6-8 months. CBC-1 doesn't have the over-carbonation risk of champaign yeast. I would not add any more priming sugar as it's obvious the initial dose was not consumed. Since you're in no rush, @Sunfire96's idea of re-yeasting one bottle and seeing what happens is a good one. Another advantage of uncapping, adding yeast, & recapping would be the beer in the bottle remains undisturbed. I feel that pouring bottled beer into a keg would increase the risk of oxidation.

 

[Megary]

So 6 weeks after my OP, I decided to just get on with it. (I did try one more bottle with the hope that more time was all that was needed, but alas, still flat).

I probably should have experimented on only one for now, but I decided to add a bit of yeast to every remaining bottle (8). Thankfully, removing the wax was rather easy. After recapping, I flipped them upside down a few times and then stuck them in a cooler with the lid closed and a heavy box on top! To be continued…

 

[Zambi]

Thanks for the follow up.
Hope ot works out OK

 

[Brewer #400075]

11% abv might be right up there on the yeasts alcohol tolerance there Megary.

So dead setnafter running the marathon and fermenting that beer it simply didn't have anything left to give to carbonate the beer.

I'd check the alcohol tolerance on BRY97.
Oh OK 13%
View attachment 25541

Great idea @Zambezi Special that'll tell you if the carbonation sugar is still in solution you don't want overcabonated barley wine.

Red Star Premier Blanc white wine yeast works to 17% and will chew every bit of sugar left in those bottles and carbonate beer as thick as motor oil and it's $1.79 a packet.