NEW ZEALAND Pils Comparrison

[GFHomebrew]

Comparrison Brew #1.

Comparing a New Zealand pilsner that's fermented at lager temps vs under pressure at Ambient (spring time 23c) room temperature.

I've been fermenting under pressure for atleast the last three years and have always wanted to compare to lager beer fermented under pressure vs standard lager temps no pressure.

I've not brewed a New Zealand pilsner before but thanks to a recent forum discussion on Cold IPA (not that this is an attempt at that) I discovered this beer style and thought not only is it New to the BJCP but it sounded similar to that popular cold IPA style of the US.

Here's what I put together based on my successful pilsner of last summer with some NZ hops and caramunich 1 grist tweeks.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1330295/nz-pils-comparrison-


Awesome getting ingreedience sorted this evening for brew day tomorrow...

I think it's cool to do a before brew expectation.
My personal expectation is that in a side by side or triangle test I'll not taste a difference based on what I've seen recently from the apartment brewer on his Czech pils side by side.
I've also done a handful of pressure fermented 18c ish lagers take my current Munich lager for instance I feel it's pretty lager like but at uncontrolled warmer temps who knows...

So what do you all think?
I'm brewing this tomorrow my time any conversation in regards to this side by side is appreciated let me know please?

Cheers !

 

[Josh Hughes]

A side by side would be great. I agree pressure fermenting a lager is quite clean. I’ve brewed the same beer but fermented differently just never side by side. Looking forward to your results

on a side note Madtree brewing in Cincinnati did/does a NZ pils and it was quite enjoyable

 

[Sunfire96]

I predict they will be different, but both still tasty! I think the cold fermented beer will taste cleaner and crisper compared to the pressure ferment. I hope I'm wrong tho!!

 

[GFHomebrew]

I predict they will be different, but both still tasty! I think the cold fermented beer will taste cleaner and crisper compared to the pressure ferment. I hope I'm wrong tho!!

Me too .
Did you see this?
Which beer did they prefer? You wouldn't believe it!

 

[GFHomebrew]

Wow what a NIGHTMARE brew day .

Yup I had a real D@!khead moment and mashed in without my biab bag in lol!
I rekon maybe 1kg of grain before I thought hey something don't look right here.

Anyhow mashed in at 61.5c it settled at
For 20mins then stepped it to 68.5 20mins then 71 10 then mashed out 75.

Wort smelt beautiful nice and malty tasted the same .
Anyhow I ended up draining the whole kettle into buckets through a kitchen sieve and then returning it to the cleaned out kettle via the mash basket so sorta sparged my wort back in to try and catch any more floaties.

So measured out my no chill overnight steep hops 15g each of Nelson Sauvin and Rakau man that Rakau smelt so much like passionfruit it will be interesting what it brings.

These little hop bags went into each keg.

Pre boil was 10brix 1.040 Smack on target


Post boil ended up a little shy on volume accounting for my stuff up and sieving the grains

11brix 1.044 2 points up .
I took at 2.5 lt starter at 10 mins in and will spin up some Gen 7 34/70 I'll pitch half and half into each keg.

Racked 12ish lt into each keg.
I was gunna use some bathroom scales to measure the keg volume but of course the battery was Lo

Ah well the wort is in the kegs I put a floating dip tube on the corney keg for "hopefully" a smooth transfer.

No to clean up my mess
Oh man I hope I don't have a brew session like this anymore.

I think we'll find out if hot side oxidation is a thing I can't have splashed that wort around any more than I did lol!
Cheers

 

[Donoroto]

Wow what a NIGHTMARE brew day .

Yup I had a real D@!khead moment and mashed in without my biab bag in lol!
I rekon maybe 1kg of grain before I thought hey something don't look right here.

Anyhow mashed in at 61.5c it settled atView attachment 23018
For 20mins then stepped it to 68.5 20mins then 71 10 then mashed out 75.
View attachment 23019
Wort smelt beautiful nice and malty tasted the same .
Anyhow I ended up draining the whole kettle into buckets through a kitchen sieve and then returning it to the cleaned out kettle via the mash basket so sorta sparged my wort back in to try and catch any more floaties.
View attachment 23020
So measured out my no chill overnight steep hops 15g each of Nelson Sauvin and Rakau man that Rakau smelt so much like passionfruit it will be interesting what it brings.
View attachment 23021
These little hop bags went into each keg.

Pre boil was 10brix 1.040 Smack on target
View attachment 23022

Post boil ended up a little shy on volume accounting for my stuff up and sieving the grains
View attachment 23023
11brix 1.044 2 points up .
I took at 2.5 lt starter at 10 mins in and will spin up some Gen 7 34/70 I'll pitch half and half into each keg.
View attachment 23025

Racked 12ish lt into each keg.
I was gunna use some bathroom scales to measure the keg volume but of course the battery was Lo
View attachment 23024
Ah well the wort is in the kegs I put a floating dip tube on the corney keg for "hopefully" a smooth transfer.

No to clean up my mess
Oh man I hope I don't have a brew session like this anymore.

I think we'll find out if hot side oxidation is a thing I can't have splashed that wort around any more than I did lol!
Cheers

I use a checklist to avoid forgetting things. Now if I could only remember to use it...

 

[GFHomebrew]

I use a checklist to avoid forgetting things. Now if I could only remember to use it...

First time it's happened in over 150 batches total brain fart won't be repeated again I hope.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Starter was ripping when I pitched it over 1lt into each batch Gen 7

Kegmenter set at 14c .3c difference and no pressure
Look at the ice formed on the in side of the glycol coil cool!

Keg is at about 12ps

Looks like it's at 26c wow so quite hot for 34/70

I've got faith in you pressure fermentation ...

 

[GFHomebrew]

5.5 hr check in on pressure batch she's off the scale I let some pressure out and this is where it's set now until finish.

I rekon this will be done tomorrow .

 

[Donoroto]

First time it's happened in over 150 batches total brain fart won't be repeated again I hope.

Ha! My brain farts so much everyone holds their nose when I think!

 

[GFHomebrew]

Ha! My brain farts so much everyone holds their nose when I think!

.

 

[GFHomebrew]

OK fermentation is done!
Took some final gravity reading today.

Pressure left - no pressure Right.

PRESSURE FERMENTED BATCH.

OG 1.044 FG 1.005 (temp correction [24.5c] 1.005) 5.12%ABV 88.6% attenuation

Fermentation peak temp was 28c settled at 24.6c 17psi was the pressure I held it at.

Aroma Lager like no hops some pear.
Cloudier hazy slightly darker in colour.
Flavour pretty clean, some esters, NO Sulphur detected finishes dry maybe slightly puckery on back of tounge sample is warmer 24.5c.

Non Pressure fermentation batch.

OG 1.044 FG 1.006 5% ABV 86% Attenuation.
Fermented no pressure 14.3c .5c diffential (STC set temp) 4 days let free rise to 18.5c day 4 put spunding valve on = 5psi (my standard lager fermentation) where it was kept until today.

lighter in colour some haze
AROMA more fruity no hop aroma malty- honey aroma
Flavor clean-malty-honey-finishing dry.


Cool that 1points gravity difference could be my measurement error more than likely

But honestly on the nose so far the pressure ferment smells more lager like the non pressure more fruity but the non lager is alot cleaner but has a similar finish to the pressure ferment.

I'll chill these down now I'll transfer the non pressure beer as for the pressure fermented batch that's going straight as is into the keezer.

Havnt chilled the non pressure batch hopeing to keep them similar.
Pressure keg is in keezer on the chill.
I'll throw some biofine on them tomorrow once their both at keezer temp...

Note this is post fermentation prior to cold conditioning ( lagering) and proper carbonation...
Cheers see you on the side by side triangle test results .

 

[GFHomebrew]

Here we go two weeks conditioning at 10psi in the keezer

L : cool fermentation 14. 5c. R pressure 17psi no temp control topped out at 28c.

They look pretty similar no?
I think the one on the right is slightly clearer this had a floating dip tube in keg but honestly they both exhibit a slight chill haze to them.

Yeah I've not bothered on the Triangle test at this stage I will do one but honestly I think I'll nail it 100% explanation.

OK the traditional fermentation batch on left it's got a lovely honey floral fruity nose to it. The pressure batch hasn't it's got near no aroma at all.

The Flavor is the same the traditional batch had a lovely low honey malt flavour with some slight passionfruit hop flavor finishing really dry leaving the mouth with a drying sensation on back of tounge bitterness is low but ballanced with the malt.

The pressure batch has a sulphur component to it the malt flavors are subdued but finishes the same clean with a dry finish.

Interesting that they are both clean
To sum up the pressure fermented beer the hops are muted the malt is muted overall its just less expressive in all directions except the finish which I feel is the same.

Will get some better side by sides in the comming days.

I'm amazed that this lager fermented at 28c came across so clean.

My personal opinion here i find when fermenting under high pressure with 34/70 that any sulphur produced in fermentation doesn't vent out of the fermenter even when temps are raised for Diacytle rest because the fermentation is closed so any (Sulphur) from the yeast is absorbed more readily back into solution on the cold crash as opposed to a fermenter where the gasses are free to vent away before cold crashing.
I got this recently on my short cut lager beer fermented at 18c under 15psi which once again was a sulphur bomb much more than this batch where the sulphur is just slight.


Anyhow

I would love to repeat this same side by side with a ale yeast where Sulphur production should be a non issue.

Cheers.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Triangle time.

Yup I detected the different beer on aroma alone it's the one on the right.
That's the pressure fermented batch and the one with the tighter bubbles actually but the aroma is muted and more like a mass produced lager just beer with a hint of sulphur.
It's also more carbonated I'd say from the pressure from fermentation.
The ones on the left are just more expressive.

This is the pour my wife did straight off the taps. Left is pressure I assume from foam I didn't sniff em then

Anyhow it's pretty conclusive.

Would I ferment with 34/70 at this temp again?

If in a jam maybe but I'd honestly wait.
It's not a horrible beer I'll probably still drink it it's just lifeless compared to its counterpart

Maybe a different yeast like an ale strain or def Kviek will provide some different results or even one fermented cool vs one at ale as we have found from Brulosophy and so on have produced great results.

Anyhow I hope you like this side by side comparrison.

Feel free to add your own comments.