Multi-step mash reduction

Hoptonium

Hoptonium

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I would like to try this recipe from Baschbrew: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/872225/tremens-clone
but I use a simple picnic cooler for my mashtun and do a single batch sparge.

I've attached the mash guideline for quick reference:
upload_2022-1-20_9-59-12.png


Can someone please recommend strike and sparge temperatures and volumes that would be a good compromise?

Cheers!
Anthony
 

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I can't exactly some more brainy than me will know.
But I'm sure if you start your strike temp so that you land at your 1st mash temp (protine rest?) Aiming at a thick mash here.
Adding a set amount of boiling water should increase your mash temps towards your next steps.

Here it tis in the tools section
Screenshot_20220120-201359_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
First step is a protein rest, you don't have to do it, I always do. For strike temp use the calc Ben suggested. For 5galls i set to 126F gor a 122F rest.

To do the other steps, you are gonna have to add boiling water. Gonna be a little trial and error as to how much.

The last two steps are mashout. For the size batches we do and the fact that you are gonna boil right after. Skip it.
 
Thank you Trialben and Minbari. I didn't know about the Infusion Calculator on this site - guess I should have looked! :oops:

I wasn't specific enough in my original post - I would like to keep to a Strike and single sparge (I don't wish to recreate Baschbrew's mash schedule), so any recommendations on a good overall 2-step plan for this type of brew would be greatly appreciated!
 
125-ish is one kind of rest, for certain proteins. 145 for others, and 158 for still others. Not doing all of them delivers a (slightly) different wort. 154 is a compromise that should be fine. Strike at 160-162 and let it ride. Sparge at 170.

My $0.02, wait for others and pick what makes sense to you.

Adding some hot water should be considered though.
 
Hoptonium said:
Thank you Trialben and Minbari. I didn't know about the Infusion Calculator on this site - guess I should have looked! :oops:

I wasn't specific enough in my original post - I would like to keep to a Strike and single sparge (I don't wish to recreate Baschbrew's mash schedule), so any recommendations on a good overall 2-step plan for this type of brew would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
Then I would do a 122-125F rest, then about 150F. 158F is getting dangerously close to killing conversion enzymes.
 
Hoptonium said:
Thank you Trialben and Minbari. I didn't know about the Infusion Calculator on this site - guess I should have looked! :oops:

I wasn't specific enough in my original post - I would like to keep to a Strike and single sparge (I don't wish to recreate Baschbrew's mash schedule), so any recommendations on a good overall 2-step plan for this type of brew would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
Try this: single infusion at 152, 60 mins, batch sparge 15 mins. Most modern malts are made for single infusion mashing, protein rests degrade head retention, mash-out increases efficiency a few tenths of a point in huge breweries... Any benefits of such a complex mash schedule will be subtle. My exceptions are when I use German Pilsner malts, then I step mash.
 
Hmmm, I was ready to claim victory - skip the protein rest, do a single infusion with a batch sparge - until I got to the end of Nosybear's post.
I will be using 100% Austrian Pilsner - I am guessing that would push you to the multi-step mash...?

For my continuing education, can I ask why you do a step mash with German Pilsner malts?
 
Hoptonium said:
Hmmm, I was ready to claim victory - skip the protein rest, do a single infusion with a batch sparge - until I got to the end of Nosybear's post.
I will be using 100% Austrian Pilsner - I am guessing that would push you to the multi-step mash...?

For my continuing education, can I ask why you do a step mash with German Pilsner malts?
Click to expand...
I'm sure Nosy has a good answer, but I thought I would chime, not to step on toes. Sorry.

It's not so much about the malt, more about the beer. Beta amylase has a target range of @135-149F or so. This is the work horse enzyme that produces most of the maltose, but it can't do it alone. It needs alpha amylase to break the starch into smaller pieces. The beta nibbles at the ends of the starch and alpha chomps down the middle. The more fermentable wort is produced by beta enzyme, mostly maltose, sucrose and glucose . So keeping it at 145F for a real long time allows the beta to work, but the alpha is slower at the lower temperature. The beta and alpha can work faster at 149, but the beta enzyme de-natures very quickly above 149F. Step mashing allows you to target first the beta and then the alpha for full conversion (high extraction rate) and good fermentability (lower final gravity).

So mashing at 145F will improve the fermentability, but it takes a while (60-90 minutes). German beers are well known for being both dry (not sweet) and still maintain a very strong malt character and that is how most brewers, including the Germans, do it. A 152F mash is a compromise and can produce good results. The beta enzyme can survive long enough to work on the starches to keep the beer from being sweet. The rest at 125 is said to be a protein rest, but it actually targets glucanase. Glucan in a mash can really suck, stuck mashes are common with excess glucan. The 125F rest is really not necessary with good, well modified malt.

So the idea of a step mash is to target the enzyme you need to create the wort/beer you want. Sorry I can't help with the step mash hot water additions, I never done it. I have a RIMS, so it's kind of like cheating in home brewing, and brainless. I like brainless.
 
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Hoptonium said:
Hmmm, I was ready to claim victory - skip the protein rest, do a single infusion with a batch sparge - until I got to the end of Nosybear's post.
I will be using 100% Austrian Pilsner - I am guessing that would push you to the multi-step mash...?

For my continuing education, can I ask why you do a step mash with German Pilsner malts?
Click to expand...
Tradition more than science. A single infusion would probably work just fine for this malt, too. Most German malts ate modified to the point where multiple steps aren't necessary. In fact, a quest for an undermodified malt took me to Leander, Texas a while back
Didn't help my Pilsners one bit...
 
The key here is to just add up all the mash TIMES and use that for a single infusion at one reasonable temperature like 150-152 F.

If you look at NHC gold medal recipes for lagers, about 90% of them only do single infusion. There is no real magic in fussing over mash steps or decoction.
 
dmtaylor said:
The key here is to just add up all the mash TIMES and use that for a single infusion at one reasonable temperature like 150-152 F.

If you look at NHC gold medal recipes for lagers, about 90% of them only do single infusion. There is no real magic in fussing over mash steps or decoction.
Click to expand...
There are benefits to step mashing, more fermentable wort and higher extract are the big ones for me. If you have a system that allows you to do step mash, I would recommend it, especially for light lagers. If you can’t perform a step mash easily, a single infusion mash is a good alternative. Targeting enzymes does have an impact on lighter lagers, especially German Pils. They often are not as well attenuated as they should be.

I won a couple at NHC for my lagers, so I must be among the minority. I always step mash.
 
Thanks Gents for all your advice and information! It is much appreciated.

In the end I had planned to strike at 145F (63C) for 60 minutes, and then sparge at 158F (70C) for 30 minutes. To try and target beta first then alpha as I understood from HighVoltageMan!'s post. The strike went as planned, however, due to a miscalculation (read: stoopidhead) on the volume of my mash tun, my sparge ended up being at 142F (61C). So it seems that I missed out on some alpha action, but what is done is done! The brew is in the fermenter bubbling away and it smells FANTASTIC!

Quick question: near the end of the 90 minute boil there were some long ropy white strands. I am guessing these were protein strands? I wish I had taken a picture but I didn't. Is this the effect of the lower mash temperature? On all previous brews I had been striking at 153F (67C) and sparging at 163F (73C).
 
My understanding is that step mash is really more for malt that is under modified. These days it's pretty rare to need to do that ... looking at your recipe I personally wouldn't bother with a step mash. The only other reason that comes to mind is what other said that hypnotically different mash temps can effect the enzymes that break down sugar in the grain so you could end up with a slightly sweeter or dryer end product depending on your mash temps. I'm planning on testing this out but my theory is it's pretty negligible but I can't back that up until I do some test beers :)
 
You know I step mash every beer pretty much because I can and I mash out as well lol.
Do I need to probably not but I do it because on my brew system it's as easy as pressing the up button also if I mash out the mash I'm closer to a boil.

Interesting curve this thread taken really enjoying it:)
 
I also always do step mashes. I get good efficiency and beer always turns out. Is it because of that? Who knows. But it's the way I do it :D
 
Trialben said:
You know I step mash every beer pretty much because I can and I mash out as well lol.
Do I need to probably not but I do it because on my brew system it's as easy as pressing the up button also if I mash out the mash I'm closer to a boil.

Interesting curve this thread taken really enjoying it:)
Click to expand...

I agree Trialben, an interesting curve indeed. At present with my picnic cooler mash tun, I will continue with a strike and sparge "two step" mash until I gradg-idate to one of them fancy set-it and forget-it systems. NO DISRESPECT - I have A LOT to learn before I am there, as I am sure all of you with these types of systems have already attained!
 
Hoptonium said:
I agree Trialben, an interesting curve indeed. At present with my picnic cooler mash tun, I will continue with a strike and sparge "two step" mash until I gradg-idate to one of them fancy set-it and forget-it systems. NO DISRESPECT - I have A LOT to learn before I am there, as I am sure all of you with these types of systems have already attained!
Click to expand...
Been doing this 7 years. I still learn stuff everytime. Learn stuff from here too.
 
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