Mash Temp for Festbier

Sandy Feet

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I am planning on brewing Sunday. Good thing I checked all my stuff as my fermenter has a big enough scratch/dent in the plastic to be of concern with that much liquid. I have time to order a new one.
My question concerns mash temps for a Festbier lager:
I am planning on doing a single infusion mash with my BIAB. Most of the stuff I am reading online says about 152F. Does that sound about right? Or, do y'all have another temperature that works better for you? I am doing a mix of 50% Pils, 30% Munich I, 20% Vienna.
 
I step with German beers.
144 for 40 minutes
158 for 20 minutes
Mashout.

I think 150-152 for single infusion is fine though. I’m a fan of lower since a Festbier should be well attenuated. Not a scientist so not sure 150 or 152 matter. I’ve also read 148 for a Festbier mash
 
I step with German beers.
144 for 40 minutes
158 for 20 minutes
Mashout.

I think 150-152 for single infusion is fine though. I’m a fan of lower since a Festbier should be well attenuated. Not a scientist so not sure 150 or 152 matter. I’ve also read 148 for a Festbier mash
I really would love to believe that I'd have the palate to pick up the differences between a step mash or a decoction or a straight single infusion. I've tried pseudo-step mashes before and convinced myself that, "Hey...there's something interesting here", but, in the end, I was probably kidding myself. Certain that I completely mismanaged the step-process however, so there's that.

Do you notice a difference in the final beer with step-mashing?

For the record and to answer the OP, the Festbier that I currently have fermenting was mashed at 152° for 30 minutes then gradually and slowly heated to "mash-out" of 162°. So, I'm not sure that technically qualifies as a step-mash...or a single infusion. :oops:
 
Thanks, y'all.
I might go a little lower for the "well attenuated". My efficiency sucks, so it probably won't hurt.
 
I step with German beers.
144 for 40 minutes
158 for 20 minutes
Mashout.

I think 150-152 for single infusion is fine though. I’m a fan of lower since a Festbier should be well attenuated. Not a scientist so not sure 150 or 152 matter. I’ve also read 148 for a Festbier mash
I agree with this. I did 146 and 158 for my octoberfest. I like a little residual sweetness in a festbeer. mine was 1.045OG and ended up 1.009.
 
With my very, very basic set-up, the single infusion is going to be a hell of a lot easier.
It is 34/70 too, so it will make beer. My first lager was at 150. My second was at 152. I loved both:)
it will work for sure. but that is why I like step mashing. you can tailor it a little more and if you can hold temp at a particular setting, then stepping is easy.
 
I really would love to believe that I'd have the palate to pick up the differences between a step mash or a decoction or a straight single infusion. I've tried pseudo-step mashes before and convinced myself that, "Hey...there's something interesting here", but, in the end, I was probably kidding myself. Certain that I completely mismanaged the step-process however, so there's that.

Do you notice a difference in the final beer with step-mashing?

For the record and to answer the OP, the Festbier that I currently have fermenting was mashed at 152° for 30 minutes then gradually and slowly heated to "mash-out" of 162°. So, I'm not sure that technically qualifies as a step-mash...or a single infusion. :oops:
Hard to explain but I liked the results so I plan to step all German beers. I think there is a pseudo decoction thing when I step as I’m using propane and I’m sure something happens
 
I’m like Josh. I mash low in any German beer, although I let the first step stay around 144-146F for 90 minutes, step 2 at 158 for 15 minutes and then 168F for 15 minutes.

Does it make a difference compared to single infusion? I think so. I get better conversion for sure, although it’s not a lot. Plus I think the beer is better. The beer starts out full at first, then it seems to start to show some sweetness in the middle and then finishes dry. It kind of weird really, but each drink from glass has that kind of feel to it.

It might be all in my head too, who knows.
 
I imagine step mashing might take a little practice with propane, especially my burner than can run up to 110K BTUs.
Hell I just figured out how to hit mash temps on the money with strike water for single infusion this year.
One thing at a time
I did learn how to get cheap CO2 refills today.
 
I imagine step mashing might take a little practice with propane, especially my burner than can run up to 110K BTUs.
Hell I just figured out how to hit mash temps on the money with strike water for single infusion this year.
One thing at a time
I did learn how to get cheap CO2 refills today.

do tell. I use the local welding supply place. $23 for 10 lbs
 
I go with 149 single infusion. But my brewing equipment is terrible so its actually hotter at the bottom and cooler at the top of the tube(that holds my grain think bag). I personally would shoot for high 140s as i prefer a more attenuated fest beer.

Most breweries in the states dont do decoction or step mashing. As a general rule, the grain that we get in the states is fully modified and does not require step mashing.

That being said, if you wanna do it, it cant hurt anything but the clock.
 
I go with 149 single infusion. But my brewing equipment is terrible so its actually hotter at the bottom and cooler at the top of the tube(that holds my grain think bag). I personally would shoot for high 140s as i prefer a more attenuated fest beer. Technically, I do step my temp up over time, but that is really based on trying to get the top of my grain tube hot for some of the total time. I generally go by the temp at the top and work from there.

Most breweries in the states dont do decoction or step mashing. As a general rule, the grain that we get in the states is fully modified and does not require step mashing.

That being said, if you wanna do it, it cant hurt anything but the clock.
 
I had the calendar in my head this week, and thought "Oh shit, if I want Thanksgiving beer, it better get done this weekend." So, thanks y'all. Now have my CO2 and propane, my grain order and new fermenter are ready to pick up. I started sanitizing everything, and I have a mash temp to shoot for (probably will use 150). Life is good, especially since the weather is supposed to be really nice on Sunday.
 
I go with 149 single infusion. But my brewing equipment is terrible so its actually hotter at the bottom and cooler at the top of the tube(that holds my grain think bag). I personally would shoot for high 140s as i prefer a more attenuated fest beer. Technically, I do step my temp up over time, but that is really based on trying to get the top of my grain tube hot for some of the total time. I generally go by the temp at the top and work from there.

Most breweries in the states dont do decoction or step mashing. As a general rule, the grain that we get in the states is fully modified and does not require step mashing.

That being said, if you wanna do it, it cant hurt anything but the clock.
Even modified grain is still starch that has to be converted to sugar. Different temps convert Differently. Lower will give you a more compete fermentation, simpler sugars. Warmer will leave sugar unfermented
 
Even modified grain is still starch that has to be converted to sugar. Different temps convert Differently. Lower will give you a more compete fermentation, simpler sugars. Warmer will leave sugar unfermented

Totally.

I was just referring to doing german-style step mashes or decoctions. A standard single temp mash is generally sufficient for full conversion of the starches when using modern commercially available malts.
 
Hard to explain but I liked the results so I plan to step all German beers. I think there is a pseudo decoction thing when I step as I’m using propane and I’m sure something happens

After reading over https://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing, along with some of Kai's other articles on mash temps, I started doing 'ramp mashing' on my propane system. Note, I have a standoff false bottom in my kettle so my bag doesn't touch the bottom. (https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/biabbottom1475.htm)

I dough-in at 'Human Temp' ≈ 102℉ strike with a 4℉ heat loss in my Bayou Classic kettle to settle at 98℉. Then I fire my burner again and adjust to ramp at 1℉/min all the way to 158℉. (the initial strike ramp is really short since my ground water is usually 70℉+) I recirculate, with stirring every 10 minutes after I get over 142℉. (checking gravity with my refractometer each time) Depending on the grain bill, I may hold for another 15–20min here, or proceed to mash out at 168℉. I also raise and rinse the bag with my recirc to rinse maximal sugars before squeezing and ramping to boil.

This has a few advantages:
1. Less time wasted. I have to ramp to Saccharification anyway, I just do it with the malt already in the kettle.
2. No dough balls as the dough-in is below the gelatinization temp.
3. Simple and flexible.
4. Full advantage of all 'rests'.

Kai showed that each 'rest' isn't hard and fixed, but a range, so you don't need to hold at a set temp. The science is forgiving and thus the process is flexible.

That is, brewing mash rests were documented *after* 1000s of years with no time pieces or thermometers being used. The subsequent measurement science shows that the various 'rest' effects aren't a light switch. They take place *near* one temp and continue until a higher temp. (the listed rest temps are just the point where the effect is maximal) It just so happens that the timing of each rest is nearly the difference of that temp range. (well, not a coincidence really) Thus if you ramp at 1°F/min, you are walking through the entire 'rest' range non-stop.

As I noted, once I get to the high 150s, I sometimes have to hold a bit. But this works out fine and is little trouble. I do Iodine tests to decide if conversion is complete, and confirm this with my refractometer. I've found that rinsing the raised bag during mash-out consistently buys me 0.005sg, so I factor that in when checking gravity to decide to mash-out.

The end result is much shorter mashing time as I'm not spending time ramping, *then* holding. From dough-in to ending the rinse is still 90 minutes, but that is *all* mash time, no 'clock stopped' time for ramps in between steps.

As to the OP's question - consider this process for ease and for style if you can swing it. If not, do steps. A Fest or Märzen should not be sweet. They are best as dry and crisp lagers with a strong malt backbone. The Fest is lighter and not toasty.
 
I really would love to believe that I'd have the palate to pick up the differences between a step mash or a decoction or a straight single infusion. I've tried pseudo-step mashes before and convinced myself that, "Hey...there's something interesting here", but, in the end, I was probably kidding myself. Certain that I completely mismanaged the step-process however, so there's that.

My buddies and I tested a double-decoction vs. a single infusion on a Dunkelweisse. It was no contest. We picked out the odd beer in a blind triangle test easily. (the decoction was head and shoulders better) Both beers were the exact same recipe brewed side by side and fermented in the same chamber with the same type of fermenter with the same yeast. (the only other variable being the kettle used) Both were also otherwise full-volume mashes.

We haven't tested decoction vs. step, but we plan to.
 

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