Lower ABV than expected

[Cooper65]

Hello there,
I've been all grain brewing for a short time, less than a year, and all of my brew's ABVs have been lower than what the recipe says, and not by just a little either. For instance, the last batch that I brewed was expected to produce a 6.17% ABV but finished out at 4.49%. Same recipe the time before only got to 3.97%.

I'm sure there are a 1000 things that could influence this, and I'm pretty sure its probably my fault. I'm am following the recipes, my equipment has been cleaned and sanitized...

Any ideas/guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Stay thirsty!

 

[Gunkleneil]

I'm fairly new as well so I can't give any advice about your brewing but I can give some advice that might help you get an answer quicker. If you took any notes or can share as much info about your brew day, equipment and fermentation process as possible you will have a better chance of getting help. As you said there are 1000 things it could be so knowing what you did when and with what will help to narrow it down. My first thing to look at would be your gravity readings at the different stages to see where you were compared to the recipe. If you don't get enough sugar from the grain then you will end up with a lower ABV.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Hello there,
I've been all grain brewing for a short time, less than a year, and all of my brew's ABVs have been lower than what the recipe says, and not by just a little either. For instance, the last batch that I brewed was expected to produce a 6.17% ABV but finished out at 4.49%. Same recipe the time before only got to 3.97%.

I'm sure there are a 1000 things that could influence this, and I'm pretty sure its probably my fault. I'm am following the recipes, my equipment has been cleaned and sanitized...

Any ideas/guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Stay thirsty!

ABV is affected obviously by Starting Gravity and Finishing Gravity.
If brewing With grain your mashing so efficiency comes into play.
You might have your BH efficiency set to high and that means your brew days are comming in under target Gravity.

Also final Gravity is affected by the yeasts Attenuation and how fermentable the wort is to begin with.

Easy fix is to give the yeast more time to finish fermenting (don't rush them) wait an extra couple of days before confirming your Final Gravity and packaging your beer.
Keeping the yeast warm at the end of fermentation can help complete fermentation as well.


These are some straightforward starters.

I feel more questions are needed.

So your Starting Gravity and Final Gravitys on them beers pls?

 

[Mark Farrall]

That was my experience. It took tens of batches before it settled down. A small amount of it was the equipment, a larger amount was my ability to use the equipment well. Then there was my inability to measure reliably and most importantly was the ability to do roughly the same things each time I brewed.

I'm not sure there's anything that was the best change I made. There were lots of small changes, some improved my brew day, some made it harder. I'd try and avoid the constant changing of the equipment and process if you can. At least until you're able to hit the numbers you've planned. Focus on making sure you can get consistent readings of gravity and temperature. If you're using a refractometer, measure multiple times making sure you've mixed the wort before measuring. Measure at a consistent time in the process.

You can also add less water than the recipe calls for and then top up near the end of the boil if you're using a refractometer. You'll hit your predicted OG, but generally have less volume than planned. I did this for a while, then gave up on it. I just accepted that I'd get lower ABV versions of the recipe until I had better control on the process. I've kept brewing some of those lower ABV versions, so that was an unexpected benefit.

If you could describe your brew day process people will chime in with various recommendations. A lot of them depend on what equipment you're using and the process you're trying to conquer.

 

[Cooper65]

I'm fairly new as well so I can't give any advice about your brewing but I can give some advice that might help you get an answer quicker. If you took any notes or can share as much info about your brew day, equipment and fermentation process as possible you will have a better chance of getting help. As you said there are 1000 things it could be so knowing what you did when and with what will help to narrow it down. My first thing to look at would be your gravity readings at the different stages to see where you were compared to the recipe. If you don't get enough sugar from the grain then you will end up with a lower ABV.

True! On both occasions I have been very close to the expected OG of 1.058, at 1.056.

I'll have to go look at my notes to answer the rest of this.

 

[Cooper65]

ABV is affected obviously by Starting Gravity and Finishing Gravity.
If brewing With grain your mashing so efficiency comes into play.
You might have your BH efficiency set to high and that means your brew days are comming in under target Gravity.

Also final Gravity is affected by the yeasts Attenuation and how fermentable the wort is to begin with.

Easy fix is to give the yeast more time to finish fermenting (don't rush them) wait an extra couple of days before confirming your Final Gravity and packaging your beer.
Keeping the yeast warm at the end of fermentation can help complete fermentation as well.


These are some straightforward starters.

I feel more questions are needed.

So your Starting Gravity and Final Gravitys on them beers pls?

The recipe OG says 1.058. Both times I have brewed this recipe I have hit 1.056 for my OG.
The recipe FG says 1.011 and both time I have hit 1.026 and 1.024, respectively.

I have used wyeast 3724-Belgian Sasion both times, this last time I threw in some yeast nutrient when I pitched which may explain the everso slightly lower FG this last time.

 

[Megary]

If your OG’s have been close to expected then your fermentations would had to have been almost impossibly mishandled to miss your FG by that much.
You either stopped fermentation before it was finished or incorrectly read your Final Gravity.
So what were your FG’s and how did you measure them? With a hydrometer or refractometer? If the latter, make sure you use something like this:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

 

[Mark Farrall]

I think the bigger picture of what you do through the whole process would help, but jumping to conclusions, how confident are you about your temperature control during mashing? If it's not measuring errors, it sounds like you're turning the starch into sugar, but the sugar is still fairly unfermentable. Mashing with too high a temperature can do that.

I get that type of attenuation when I mash at 70C/158F for my sour beers. I hit the predicted OG but the FG is way higher than the recipe builder expects. Which is exactly what I'm after.

 

[Cooper65]

Sorry, tried to delete this reply and make a general post.

 

[Cooper65]

Thank you guys so much for the input.

Ok, So there I was...

I brew in a Brewzilla, have an immersion chiller, and an Anvil SS bucket fermentor. My batch size is 5gal. All Measurements are in imperial units, and Tempratures are in F. I use a hydrometer for my gravity measurements

Recipe:
JALAPENO SAISON
OG: 1.058 FG: 1.011 ABV: 6.1% IBU: 21.6. SRM: 9.9 Mash ph: 5.8

FERMENTABLES
8lb Belgian- Pilsner
.5lb Aromatic Malt
.1lb Chocolate Wheat
.63lb Belgian Candi syrup
12.17oz (NT WT) Agave nectar

HOPS
.2oz CTZ 16% @60min
.2oz CTZ 16% @30min

OTHER INGREDIENTS
5 chopped jalapeno peppers (seeds removed)

I tumble the grains in the plastic bag to make sure it is all mixed in well.
Place the grain into a brew bag (keeps junk out of my pump) and place said bag into my 6gals of strike water at a temp of 152. Lower temp on Brewzilla to 147 (this keeps my mash at between 145-149) mash for 60min, stirring grains occasionally. At the end of 60min. lift grains out and sparge with 1gal of 120 degree-ish hot water.

Pre-boil gravity: (1.013)

Start boil, add 1st hops, let boil, add 2nd hops, let boil, add jalapenos at 10min. at 60min, flameout and add syrup and nectar.

Cool wort to 70 degrees, pull OG, (1.056), and transfer to fermentor.
I allow the wort to free fall about 24" from the Brewzilla into the fermentor to aerate the wort. I had "popped" my yeast at the start of the brew the brew day so it could come up to room temp. Pitch yeast, and add 6tsp of yeast nutrient to the fermentor. Cap and add airlock set to let it do its magic.

Avg. temp of area where fermentor sits was 68-70, let it work for two weeks. This last batch, I wrapped the fermentor with an electric blanket and monitored the temp to keep the temp at 86-87ish.

Pull FG, (1.026), and bottle.

Hope this helps,

 

[Cooper65]

I think the bigger picture of what you do through the whole process would help, but jumping to conclusions, how confident are you about your temperature control during mashing? If it's not measuring errors, it sounds like you're turning the starch into sugar, but the sugar is still fairly unfermentable. Mashing with too high a temperature can do that.
I get that type of attenuation when I mash at 70C/158F for my sour beers. I hit the predicted OG but the FG is way higher than the recipe builder expects. Which is exactly what I'm after.

So the Brewzilla has an internal thermostat that is pretty accurate. I have tested it using a brewing thermometer.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I

Thank you guys so much for the input.

Ok, So there I was...

I brew in a Brewzilla, have an immersion chiller, and an Anvil SS bucket fermentor. My batch size is 5gal. All Measurements are in imperial units, and Tempratures are in F. I use a hydrometer for my gravity measurements

Recipe:
JALAPENO SAISON
OG: 1.058 FG: 1.011 ABV: 6.1% IBU: 21.6. SRM: 9.9 Mash ph: 5.8

FERMENTABLES
8lb Belgian- Pilsner
.5lb Aromatic Malt
.1lb Chocolate Wheat
.63lb Belgian Candi syrup
12.17oz (NT WT) Agave nectar

HOPS
.2oz CTZ 16% @60min
.2oz CTZ 16% @30min

OTHER INGREDIENTS
5 chopped jalapeno peppers (seeds removed)

I tumble the grains in the plastic bag to make sure it is all mixed in well.
Place the grain into a brew bag (keeps junk out of my pump) and place said bag into my 6gals of strike water at a temp of 152. Lower temp on Brewzilla to 147 (this keeps my mash at between 145-149) mash for 60min, stirring grains occasionally. At the end of 60min. lift grains out and sparge with 1gal of 120 degree-ish hot water.

Pre-boil gravity: (1.013)

Start boil, add 1st hops, let boil, add 2nd hops, let boil, add jalapenos at 10min. at 60min, flameout and add syrup and nectar.

Cool wort to 70 degrees, pull OG, (1.056), and transfer to fermentor.
I allow the wort to free fall about 24" from the Brewzilla into the fermentor to aerate the wort. I had "popped" my yeast at the start of the brew the brew day so it could come up to room temp. Pitch yeast, and add 6tsp of yeast nutrient to the fermentor. Cap and add airlock set to let it do its magic.

Avg. temp of area where fermentor sits was 68-70, let it work for two weeks. This last batch, I wrapped the fermentor with an electric blanket and monitored the temp to keep the temp at 86-87ish.

Pull FG, (1.026), and bottle.

Hope this helps,

Think it could be your yeast strain Belgian sasion or French some will stall on you at the end of fermentation.
One thing is make sure no head pressure on ferm vessel they like open fermentation but that doesn't mean fermentation with no lid it's loose lid or no water in airlock alfoil over top
Or take prv out of keg and alfoil on that.

Also warming up or keeping the temp warm at end of them fermentations help.

Some saisons have been known to Pieter out then start back up a week later.

So what sasion yeast strain..
They should be in the 90's on attenuation

 

[Cooper65]

I

Think it could be your yeast strain Belgian sasion or French some will stall on you at the end of fermentation.
One thing is make sure no head pressure on ferm vessel they like open fermentation but that doesn't mean fermentation with no lid it's loose lid or no water in airlock alfoil over top
Or take prv out of keg and alfoil on that.

Also warming up or keeping the temp warm at end of them fermentations help.

Some saisons have been known to Pieter out then start back up a week later.

So what sasion yeast strain..
They should be in the 90's on attenuation

Yeah, my brewing supply guy mentioned that particular strain is bad about petering out. I did not know about "no head pressure"! I have always put the lid on tight and filled the airlock... I will have to try a loose lid. I let it ferm for 2 1/2 weeks.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Yeah, my brewing supply guy mentioned that particular strain is bad about petering out. I did not know about "no head pressure"! I have always put the lid on tight and filled the airlock... I will have to try a loose lid. I let it ferm for 2 1/2 weeks.

Yeah that's plenty of time.

What temp did you ferment?
So my saison I fermented this week.
Pitch was 23c it free rised to 26c in the end I held it there with heat belt.

 

[Minbari]

Little late to the party, but I would say the ABV issue is definitely directly related to the high FG. If the yeast stalled out, sometimes a simple stir will get it back in suspension and get it going again. Sometimes you just have to add more yeast

 

[GFHomebrew]

Yeah it's Attenuation issue resulting in high Final Gravity.
Yup rouse and warm it up.

 

[Cooper65]

Yeah that's plenty of time.

What temp did you ferment?
So my saison I fermented this week.
Pitch was 23c it free rised to 26c in the end I held it there with heat belt.

I pitched at 70F and held the temp around 86F with a heating blanket

 

[Cooper65]

Little late to the party, but I would say the ABV issue is definitely directly related to the high FG. If the yeast stalled out, sometimes a simple stir will get it back in suspension and get it going again. Sometimes you just have to add more yeast

I had wondered about that! The yeast says it is 100b cells, and the expected OG says it should need 110-170b cells. I hat thought that maybe I needed to pitch two packs of yeast instead of just one.

 

[GFHomebrew]

I pitched at 70F and held the temp around 86F with a heating blanket

Wowsers that 30c man it musta went crazy right at the start then nothing.

 

[Viejos Cañones]

The temperatures are important, do not vary them until you have experience, the alcohol in what I see is the least, check the other posts and you will recognize what your mistake is. The temperature is usually staggered or not decreased in step or not. It all depends on what you want and not just alcohol (OG-FG)
El OG depende de si la malta es molida fresca, etc. y no tengo datos. No busques alcohol, busca características de lo que estás haciendo, el resto lo descubres solo con experiencia en la elaboración. Puede que mis recetas no te den el resultado esperado, pero es una forma de ir y buscar lo que quieres.