little fermentation goin on

[Mumbles]

Hi all,

brewed an amber biscuit ale two days ago and pitched a rehydrated dry yeast. It was a Neale's Brewing Supplies West Coast Ale yeast, 15g packet for 5 gallon batch. The first time I have used this yeast and also the first time I have rehydrated a yeast.

OG was 1.052 and on day two it's barely moved. There are some bubbles going on and the fluid in my hydrometer has a head.

Should I be patient or re-pitch? I've got some safale us-05 (11g) or I also have Safbrew F2 refermentation yeast.

Help will be appreciated as I've bunged a lot of hops in this baby and it would be a shame to waste it!

 

[jeffpn]

Don’t sweat it yet. Might take another day or two. What temp water did you use to rehydrate?

 

[Mumbles]

Don’t sweat it yet. Might take another day or two. What temp water did you use to rehydrate?

boiled the water then let temp drop a bit lower than i wanted to 27C. Left the mix in a rather warm kitchen for about an hour and a half. It seemed to be getting active but maybe settled a little before I pitched. Didn't feed the yeast with sugars during rehydration.

 

[jeffpn]

It’s been a while since I rehydrated, but 27°C seems a tad warm to me. What temp did the instructions say? Did you put the yeast in the water at that temp, or does that temp refer to your yeast/water mix pitched into the wort? My point is, hot water will kill yeast.

 

[Mumbles]

instructions said to go in between 30&35. pitched it at about 20C

 

[J A]

There are some bubbles going on and the fluid in my hydrometer has a head.

Carboy or bucket? Even a vigorous ale yeast won't necessarily make the airlock dance if it's in a bucket. If there bubbles at all, there's activity. You pitched at a good temp (assuming that your 20C refers to your wort temp rather than the rehydrated yeast temp), but what's your fementation temp?
I'd expect significant attenuation by day 4 but day 2 may be just a tad early to really judge. I'd leave it and be patient.

 

[Nosybear]

Hi all,

brewed an amber biscuit ale two days ago and pitched a rehydrated dry yeast. It was a Neale's Brewing Supplies West Coast Ale yeast, 15g packet for 5 gallon batch. The first time I have used this yeast and also the first time I have rehydrated a yeast.

OG was 1.052 and on day two it's barely moved. There are some bubbles going on and the fluid in my hydrometer has a head.

Should I be patient or re-pitch? I've got some safale us-05 (11g) or I also have Safbrew F2 refermentation yeast.

Help will be appreciated as I've bunged a lot of hops in this baby and it would be a shame to waste it!

Was 1.052 a change from the OG? You can't rely on the airlock as an indicator of fermentation unless you're sure the vessel is completely sealed. Gas can get out elsewhere, leading to sluggish or no activity in the airlock. First question, does it have a krauesen, a layer of foam on top? If so, it's fermenting. If not, is the gravity changing or do you have a "bathtub ring" on the fermentor that looks like it might have been a krauesen? If so, it's already fermented - some yeasts do that. If the gravity has not changed since you pitched the yeast, you have a problem, and measuring the gravity is the only to know for sure.

 

[Mumbles]

Well being patient has paid off. Went down to take a hyrdometer reading this morning and found the beer bubbling up and out of the air lock! It's gone everywhere.

Guess my question now is, should I leave it alone or pop the top off and give the air lock a clean and sterilise it? I'm tempted just to leave it.

 

[CRUNK]

As long as it's not making a mess everywhere, let it run its course, if it is making a mess, set up a way to contain it, and let it run its course.

 

[Mumbles]

It's in the basement of my pub where all liquid can run down the concrete floor to the drain.

 

[Aksarben]

Mentioning yeast hydration temps, I am curious. Is beer yeast different than wine yeast for temp of hydration? We hydrate our wine yeasts at 100-104 F all the time, per the instructions. Also we use a yeast nutrient in the hydration water called GoFerm at the rate of 1.25 lbs per pound of yeast. or a ratio of 1.25:1 It is added to very hot water to dissolve, and cooled with cold water to 100 F before adding yeast to hydrate.

Yeast should be yeast, whether wine or beer. Our wines always take off better at 60 and above than at 50 F. If we have juice that is low 70s it REALLY takes off....

Just asking as it pertains to this idea of yeast and hydration.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Mentioning yeast hydration temps, I am curious. Is beer yeast different than wine yeast for temp of hydration? We hydrate our wine yeasts at 100-104 F all the time, per the instructions. Also we use a yeast nutrient in the hydration water called GoFerm at the rate of 1.25 lbs per pound of yeast. or a ratio of 1.25:1 It is added to very hot water to dissolve, and cooled with cold water to 100 F before adding yeast to hydrate.

Yeast should be yeast, whether wine or beer. Our wines always take off better at 60 and above than at 50 F. If we have juice that is low 70s it REALLY takes off....

Just asking as it pertains to this idea of yeast and hydration.

I recon the geo ferm is a kinda yeast nutrient? No rehydration needed if going liquid.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

when you rehydrate beer yeast you just want room temperature water, I add a pinch of sugar some times just to wake'm up faster

 

[J A]

Yeast should be yeast, whether wine or beer.

Lots of different strains and even different species of yeasts. They've evolved over millions(?) of years and have been cultivated over many centuries in different parts of the world and they do different things.
Most beer yeasts would suffer a lot of stress at high temperatures whereas wine yeasts apparently are fine with triple digit temp. While most beer strains will thrive in a wide range of pitch and fermentation temps - 50 to 80 or so - there's usually a much tighter range where a specific strain will develop its best flavor and desired characteristics.

 

[Nosybear]

I follow the directions on the package. Warm but not hot, no nutrients or sugar.... As to the yeast, they're all S. Cerevisiae. Beer yeast will ferment warm, if you want lots of esters and fusels, and make wine. It'll make bread, too, although it's not selected for optimal production of CO2. Wine yeast will make beer, Saison yeast is an example, bread, too. And during Prohibition, the warning labels on cans of malt extract spoke of the dire consequences of pitching bread yeast into wort. Strain selection is optimization for specific outcomes but each will do the work of the others and I'd be willing to bet, in a few generations you couldn't tell the difference.

 

[GFHomebrew]

And then there is wild yeast and symbiotic coexistant organisms and alian things that can result in the mouth funk of a lifetime better known as the ye old belgian Lambic Beer!

 

[Nosybear]

^^^ and sourdough.

 

[Aksarben]

Lots of different strains and even different species of yeasts. They've evolved over millions(?) of years and have been cultivated over many centuries in different parts of the world and they do different things.
Most beer yeasts would suffer a lot of stress at high temperatures whereas wine yeasts apparently are fine with triple digit temp. While most beer strains will thrive in a wide range of pitch and fermentation temps - 50 to 80 or so - there's usually a much tighter range where a specific strain will develop its best flavor and desired characteristics.

Yes, I'm very aware of different strains and varieties. Scott Lab, Lallemand, and others offer a plethora of different yeast, all giving the impression of being the finest selection for this or that wine. In wine yeasts PDM give a very clean fermentation with little esters, and makes a very good choice for sparkling wines. It also will ferment grape wines like Vidal, Sauvignon blanc, and others to bone dry and in a hurry. Vin13 is a hybrid of yeast from South Africa. I've used it to ferment Seyval dry and it smells more perfumey than PDM. It is a great yeast to use for good steady fermentations without the worry of getting H2SO4 from lower nitrogen.


Yeast will work well at a bit elevated temps, but wine yeasts do not do well above 95F. This is about their limit on some like Uvarerm 43,and SVG. Others like it a whole lot cooler, especially EP II (Epernay 2) which is used for a lot of fruit forward wines and some light esterfication. It is odd that the directions of hydrating wine yeast state 100-104F, but then when you inoculate the juice, it is best to allow it to be cooler and closer to the temp of the juice. If the hydrated yeast is very warm and you add it to a cold (45-55 deg F) juice, you will kill appx half the yeast from shock. So, wine yeasts are not fine with triple digit temps and will necessitate the use of cooling plates in red ferments that approach 90+ F degree.

I have been curious if anyone ever used wine yeast, like PDM, that has low esters, for a brew?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

keep beer yeast below 80F and I mean yeast not the air when beer yeast ferment it can raise as much as 10 degrees from the air temperature

 

[GFHomebrew]

@Aksarben very interesting indeed on the low ester producing wine yeast in beer. I suppose the ease of buying us05 or wlp001 or wlp090 is a sure winner. But a great exbeeriment to compare a clean ale yeast against a clean wine yeast!