Hops scaling by elevation

[Walken100]

2 requests relative to elevation
- Hops scaling by elevation similar to scaling by batch size or efficiency.
- Publish the hops utilization by elevation % you use.

I suspect you would need to make elevation a required input (I don't think it is if I remember correctly). Otherwise when recipes are copied and scaled we would be scaling junk inputs.

 

[Ward Chillington]

Help me out here with your reasoning @Walken100 ...hops being an ingredient as opposed to a variable affect of temperature given where you live in relation to sea level. Wouldn't the entire recipe need altering? And then...to what remedy? What do you think you are getting or loosing with this calculation?
And please don't take offense or misunderstand my question..no right or wrong, I'm just curious?

 

[Walken100]

Help me out here with your reasoning @Walken100 ...hops being an ingredient as opposed to a variable affect of temperature given where you live in relation to sea level. Wouldn't the entire recipe need altering? And then...to what remedy? What do you think you are getting or loosing with this calculation?
And please don't take offense or misunderstand my question..no right or wrong, I'm just curious?

Hops utilization is a variable. It varies with temperature. Hops are added at a variety of temps throughout a brew, boil, hop stand, mash and fermenter. At my elevation water boils at 204 degrees. As a result I need to add 35% additional hops to get to the IBU's targeted in a recipe developed at sea level. Note depending on what you read its between 20-37%. I've found that 35% gets me the results I expect from a given IBU.

The program accounts for elevation by displaying the IBUs you will get based on the time, temp and quantity of hops. IE it accounts for elevation that is listed in your equipment setup. Currently when you copy a recipe from a brewers friend you have to scale both the batch size and the efficiency for your system. This function is clean. Hops on the other hand have no scaling function. The elevation corrected IBUs are displayed and you have to adjust the quantity of hops manually to achieve the original IBU listed in the recipe you copied.

Sorry for the long explanation but one of the reasons we use a program is to avoid a bunch of manual calculations. I just think that this would be a good add.

I haven't heard of any other effects to recipes caused by elevation. I suspect that there are some but hops utilization is the only one that I have noticed is significant.

 

[Donoroto]

Huh. Never thought of that. Glad I live close to the ground.

 

[Ward Chillington]

No apologies needed, good explanation and I'm learning something! So ok, I see you are in the Rockies so your looking a about a 10° delta from boiling, does that make a discernable difference with the hops that you can actually taste or one that is only noticed with some spectral or other technology instruments on an app?

 

[Walken100]

No apologies needed, good explanation and I'm learning something! So ok, I see you are in the Rockies so your looking a about a 10° delta from boiling, does that make a discernable difference with the hops that you can actually taste or one that is only noticed with some spectral or other technology instruments on an app?

Very discernable. Before I found out about the issue I couldn't make a decent IPA. Not even close. In a discussion, on hops, with a local brew master he asked if I adjusted for elevation. My answer was "WHAT". It turns out that at my elevation I have to add 33% additional hops to account for a loss of 8 degrees in boil temp.
This is a good read: https://beerandbrewing.com/ask-the-experts-brewing-at-high-altitude/

Hops utilization is more significantly impacted by elevation that I could imagine. The funny thing is that I knew there was an impact based on temperature I just hadn't thought about the fact that I boil at a lower temp.

 

[Donoroto]

Very discernable. Before I found out about the issue I couldn't make a decent IPA. Not even close. In a discussion, on hops, with a local brew master he asked if I adjusted for elevation. My answer was "WHAT". It turns out that at my elevation I have to add 33% additional hops to account for a loss of 8 degrees in boil temp.
This is a good read: https://beerandbrewing.com/ask-the-experts-brewing-at-high-altitude/

Hops utilization is more significantly impacted by elevation that I could imagine. The funny thing is that I knew there was an impact based on temperature I just hadn't thought about the fact that I boil at a lower temp.

Hmmm. I just said about the same: What? I mean, I'm kinda happy with my hoppy brews, and at 1100 ft I suppose the impact is minimal, but I think I really should adjust my numbers more accurately.

 

[Walken100]

Hmmm. I just said about the same: What? I mean, I'm kinda happy with my hoppy brews, and at 1100 ft I suppose the impact is minimal, but I think I really should adjust my numbers more accurately.

A buddy of mine that brews at the same elevation (or higher) than me hates hoppy beers, doesn't adjust for elevation, and loves his beer.......

 

[GFHomebrew]

A buddy of mine that brews at the same elevation (or higher) than me hates hoppy beers, doesn't adjust for elevation, and loves his beer.......

Must like them less bitter


Hey so if water boils at a lower temperature at high altitude does it therefore take less time to hit a boil?

I'd think it would if the boiling temp is lower...

 

[Walken100]

Must like them less bitter


Hey so if water boils at a lower temperature at high altitude does it therefore take less time to hit a boil?

I'd think it would if the boiling temp is lower...

Yes but.... On my electric kettle it goes so fast I can't keep up with the other stuff I need to do. So it isn't a big deal relatively.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Yes but.... On my electric kettle it goes so fast I can't keep up with the other stuff I need to do. So it isn't a big deal relatively.

Well that's cool.

Sounds like you've found your answer in your link there from Brad Smith eh?

Just increase your bittering addition was it by 30% and shell be cool bannanas.

 

[Walken100]

Well that's cool.

Sounds like you've found your answer in your link there from Brad Smith eh?

Just increase your bittering addition was it by 30% and shell be cool bannanas.

I knew the answer but it turns out the program isn't doing what it is supposed to. In the equipment profile the utilization adjustment isn't overriding the elevation adjustment. They are looking into it. The recipe adjustment works in the mean time

 

[Ward Chillington]

At 710' I guess I can make cheaper ipa!