Don't want clove flavor

[KenK]

I brewed an apa with Cascade hops for bittering and dry hopping. My boys don't like the clove flavor. What can I use that would be mildly citrusy without the clove notes?

 

[chub1]

Clove!!!!
Ok, i must admit that i was brewing with a lot of cascade at one time but have switched my preference/s to Amarillo and Citra.

 

[Nosybear]

Clove is generally a fermentation by-product. Did you use wheat in the grist?

 

[OkanaganMike]

Could be the yeast too. Can you show the recipe?

 

[KenK]

I didn't use any wheat. Let's see if I can post the recipe:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/516862/generic-extract-apa

 

[J A]

You've got something going on that's not in tht recipe...I can't think of any scenario whereby you'd get spice notes out of anything in that recipe. What's your fermentation temp? How's your sanitation? I've definitely gotten mild spice notes where they shouldn't be from being contaminated with wild yeast, etc.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

looks like you hit the too hot edge of the yeast fermentation range, yeast can raise as much as 7 degrees and cause wild flavors

 

[KenK]

I think my sanitation is pretty good. Any chance it could be the hop choice? Not sure I can cool the fermentation til it gets a little cooler, but that won't be long now. It held pretty good in the mid 60's.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Ive also had some bad batches of US05, some flavors are peachy some clove and this can happen if half the yeast is dead and they stress in the beginning

 

[KenK]

Ive also had some bad batches of US05, some flavors are peachy some clove and this can happen if half the yeast is dead and they stress in the beginning

That's good to know. I use a starter so it seemed pretty lively. I wonder if I should use something else.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

you can create stress in the starter its self, it could have happened before even pitching, after many off flavors I've had over the years I started smelling the yeast or starter before pitching, Ive had bad smelling starters and bad smelling dry yeast, a smell to avoid is the over ripe smell, like fruit thats almost turned

 

[KenK]

Looks like I've got some learnin to do. Thanks you guys -- I'm gonna keep plugging away and I'll get it right if it takes me 20 years.

 

[J A]

Mid-60s should be okay...I've found that a sweet spot for the dreaded peach bomb from US-05 is about 63. If you held between 65 and 70 you should be in a good spot to get its characteristic, fairly clean flavor profile without a lot of off flavors. Even when I've gotten big peach, I've been able to raise temp before FG and make it go away, so it's a relatively vulnerable flavor compound. Unless you got substantially warmer than you think, the flavor contribution from the yeast should be minimal.
I don't see any way you could get clove notes from any hops, much less Cascade. "Spicy" hops like Saaz, Fuggles, Willamette tend to be earthy with a more generic aromatic quality that calls to mind slightly peppery spice but doesn't resolve into clove or cinnamon - those are very specific flavor molecules and they're relatively rare in plants.
I will say that a pound of Victory may give you some interesting flavor notes. I use 4 or 8 ounces in most recipes and it shows its character - nutty, toasty, very slightly bitter. I wonder if something in that malt flavor is interacting with the extract flavor and fruity notes from the yeast and giving something that could remind you of clove.
Try brew the exact same recipe but change out 3/4 of the Victory for Vienna or Munich.

 

[Head First]

I brewed an apa with Cascade hops for bittering and dry hopping. My boys don't like the clove flavor. What can I use that would be mildly citrusy without the clove notes?

One thing not addressed here so far is how old are the hops? If they have ben left improperly stored for a long time they can develop weird flavors.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

One thing not addressed here so far is how old are the hops? If they have ben left improperly stored for a long time they can develop weird flavors.

now that is defiantly true, "never store your hops in your keezer" beer stink will ruin the hops

 

[KenK]

One thing not addressed here so far is how old are the hops? If they have ben left improperly stored for a long time they can develop weird flavors.

I used fresh packs of hops for this batch but have saved half-packs in Tupperware in the fridge thinking I'd save a few bucks. Now I'm thinking I'll just ditch whatever I don't use -- not worth screwing up a batch of suds...

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

if you save hops freeze them

 

[KenK]

Mid-60s should be okay...I've found that a sweet spot for the dreaded peach bomb from US-05 is about 63. If you held between 65 and 70 you should be in a good spot to get its characteristic, fairly clean flavor profile without a lot of off flavors. Even when I've gotten big peach, I've been able to raise temp before FG and make it go away, so it's a relatively vulnerable flavor compound. Unless you got substantially warmer than you think, the flavor contribution from the yeast should be minimal.
I don't see any way you could get clove notes from any hops, much less Cascade. "Spicy" hops like Saaz, Fuggles, Willamette tend to be earthy with a more generic aromatic quality that calls to mind slightly peppery spice but doesn't resolve into clove or cinnamon - those are very specific flavor molecules and they're relatively rare in plants.
I will say that a pound of Victory may give you some interesting flavor notes. I use 4 or 8 ounces in most recipes and it shows its character - nutty, toasty, very slightly bitter. I wonder if something in that malt flavor is interacting with the extract flavor and fruity notes from the yeast and giving something that could remind you of clove.
Try brew the exact same recipe but change out 3/4 of the Victory for Vienna or Munich.

Not a bad idea at all. I also got to wondering if the extract has anything to do with it too. My very next batch of this is going to be an all grain version so I know exactly what's going in there. And something I've learned from this is thread is that I need to keep way better notes.

 

[KenK]

you can create stress in the starter its self, it could have happened before even pitching, after many off flavors I've had over the years I started smelling the yeast or starter before pitching, Ive had bad smelling starters and bad smelling dry yeast, a smell to avoid is the over ripe smell, like fruit thats almost turned

I guess I haven't been brewing long enough to know what bad yeast smells like. It smelled "good" to me but will definitely start paying attention to it to see if I can pick up any differences.

 

[J A]

if you save hops freeze them

Second that...and invest in a vacuum sealer to make sure that O2 contact is minimized. That way you can buy hops by the quarter, half or pound and save a lot of money.