DIY Flaked Grain

[DutchEwald]

My apologies if this has been discussed asked and answered.

I've been experimenting with gelatinizing dried grains from the feed mill, before grinding them... IDK if the outcome would be similar to a "flaked" grain.

The process, goes as follows (lets say 5 Lbs, 2.27kg) grain purchased from the feed mill, using a bain-marie setup controlled with a PID holding the temps according to the gelatinizing temps for a length of time 2-3 hrs. Then dry the gelatinized grain, crushing the grain would then make it similar to a flaked grain.

This is just what I've been doing, I'm not finding much information on a DIY level...
Anyone have thoughts on this process?

DutchEwald

 

[Craigerrr]

Sorry, I'm no help to you on this

 

[Hawkbox]

That's a hell of a good question that I do not have an answer for. Based on what I know about oat rolling for livestock I "think" it would be about the same, but I have no evidence to support that.

 

[56 Firedome]

Seems like a lot of work to avoid the cost of flaked grain. I never have crushed flaked oats or corn before Mashing, just out of the bin & into the Mash Tun.
Is it availability or cost or just curiosity?

 

[DutchEwald]

Seems like a lot of work to avoid the cost of flaked grain. I never have crushed flaked oats or corn before Mashing, just out of the bin & into the Mash Tun.
Is it availability or cost or just curiosity?

If it was about cost... Would it not be easier, cheaper and less work, to just go to the store and purchase whatever beer was on sale? We all brew for different reasons. For me it's a creative journey, and when you enjoy it, it's never work.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Seems like a lot of work to avoid the cost of flaked grain. I never have crushed flaked oats or corn before Mashing, just out of the bin & into the Mash Tun.
Is it availability or cost or just curiosity?

If it was about cost... Would it not be easier, cheaper and less work, to just go to the store and purchase whatever beer was on sale? We all brew for different reasons. For me it's a creative journey, and when you enjoy it, it's never work.

Pity you couldn't call a malting company and ask them about this "geletanisation process".
Malting barley let alone any seed seems a dark art to me.

 

[DutchEwald]

Pity you couldn't call a malting company and ask them about this "geletanisation process".
Malting barley let alone any seed seems a dark art to me.

Been malting, Wheat, Rye, Oats, Corn, and Barley... which can be turned into crystal malts and then kilning them to the desired Lovibond.

The down side of doing things this way kinda makes using the Brewers Friend Recipe Generator more of a guide, then anything else, but the Recipe Calculator is still a very useful tool as well.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Been malting, Wheat, Rye, Oats, Corn, and Barley... which can be turned into crystal malts and then kilning them to the desired Lovibond.

The down side of doing things this way kinda makes using the Brewers Friend Recipe Generator more of a guide, then anything else, but the Recipe Calculator is still a very useful tool as well.

Very cool man.
Yeah I've tried the other side roasting and making crystal malt out of already malted base pilsner and ale grains.
I've loved the results ive had in the beers I've tried it in.
Will be interesting what you find out.
When it comes to oats I just used rolled oats the ones you make your porridge out of with pretty good results in the hazy styles where you want that silky creamy mouthfeel.
CHEERS

 

[Nosybear]

Seems like a lot of work to avoid the cost of flaked grain. I never have crushed flaked oats or corn before Mashing, just out of the bin & into the Mash Tun.
Is it availability or cost or just curiosity?

If it was about cost... Would it not be easier, cheaper and less work, to just go to the store and purchase whatever beer was on sale? We all brew for different reasons. For me it's a creative journey, and when you enjoy it, it's never work.

Let me see if I understand what you intend: You want to use feed grain for brewing, gelatinize it and dry it, correct?

I have an ex-Marine friend, whenever we go to lunch and I talk about the quality of the food, his response is it makes a turd. Feed grain will make beer. You can buy horse feed and get several grains and get some molasses in the mix, if you so desire. It'll make beer. I'm sure the ancient monks put some stuff we'd question in their legendary abbey beers. Grains are called food grade or in our case, brewery grade for a reason; likewise, feed grain is generally lower quality or strains American humans may not like to eat. Wordy way of saying, your idea will make beer.

The gelatinization process is quite simple: Cook the grain. It may be as easy as cooking rolled oats, oats that have been passed through steam-heated rollers to make them easier to cook or as difficult as cooking corn grits or rice. Mix the grain with enough water, generally a minimum of two parts water to one part grain, boil until tender. If you look up cereal mashing, sometimes they recommend mixing some of your malted barley in, not necessary. You're gelatinizing the grain, not converting it. Once the grain is cooked, either cool it or account for the heat and add the cooked cereal to your mash tun.

I suppose you could dry the resulting gelatinized cereal. "Converted" rice is simply rice that has been parboiled, another name for gelatinized, then dried. You'd have to prevent the grain from spoiling as it dried. The grain's shelf life is much longer uncooked so if I were to try using raw grains, I'd cook them just before mashing. If you want something a bit more authoritative than my ramblings, google "Cereal Mashing." That'll get you through the gelatinization. I've never heard of drying the cooked cereal.

 

[DutchEwald]

1st reason for drying the gelatinized grain is it takes about a week or so to gather all the grains for a recipe. Malting each grain takes 3-5 days. Gelatinizing is another day (with drying), I built a drying rack that has 15 tray capacity, able to do 15-20 lbs of grains at a time, it holds a steady temp of 120 f (49 c) So getting the gelatinized grains dry isn't an issue, and these will keep on a shelf for month or two ... 2nd reason for drying gelatinized grains is running them trough the grain mill wet, can get messy, and can create a situation for bacteria, or mold to grow inside the grain mill.

Your a ramblings are appreciated

However in order to get beer from what farmers call sweet feed you will need enzymes or a koji type mold to convert the starches in the grain, otherwise you're just creating a rumbullion with grain flavor.

 

[GFHomebrew]

1st reason for drying the gelatinized grain is it takes about a week or so to gather all the grains for a recipe. Malting each grain takes 3-5 days. Gelatinizing is another day (with drying), I built a drying rack that has 15 tray capacity, able to do 15-20 lbs of grains at a time, it holds a steady temp of 120 f (49 c) So getting the gelatinized grains dry isn't an issue, and these will keep on a shelf for month or two ... 2nd reason for drying gelatinized grains is running them trough the grain mill wet, can get messy, and can create a situation for bacteria, or mold to grow inside the grain mill.

Your a ramblings are appreciated

However in order to get beer from what farmers call sweet feed you will need enzymes or a koji type mold to convert the starches in the grain, otherwise you're just creating a rumbullion with grain flavor.

Oh true so the grains you malt arnt enzymatic?
I thought these enzymes were achieved as part of the natural malting process?

Interesting stuff.
So when your making crystal malt you first malt them and then dry them at a higher temp into the saccrification range 60c-70c?

I've watched DIY maltsters on the tube making drum rollers out of er 44 gallon drums and setting these on a roller system.

 

[DutchEwald]

Oh true so the grains you malt arnt enzymatic?
I thought these enzymes were achieved as part of the natural malting process?

Interesting stuff.
So when your making crystal malt you first malt them and then dry them at a higher temp into the saccrification range 60c-70c?

Malted grains usually contain enzymes. (This is where the Diastatic Power comes into play to convert the other grains without enzymes)
Raw unmalted grains do not have active enzymes,
Gelatinized grain do not have active enzymes, but make the grain easier to convert the starches.
Crystal grain have already used their enzymes converting the starch inside their hulls to sugar. They do not contribute much to converting other grain in the recipe.

Generally farm feed is raw unmalted seeds/grains harvested off the fields and dried (if these are over dried or dried to quickly the grain could be useless to malt) Sweet feed is a combination of unmalted grains, this usually gets it's name from the molasses, adding to the sweet flavor

 

[Hawkbox]

Your average livestock feed isn’t malted on purpose so that’s definitely an extra step.

 

[Nosybear]

1st reason for drying the gelatinized grain is it takes about a week or so to gather all the grains for a recipe. Malting each grain takes 3-5 days. Gelatinizing is another day (with drying), I built a drying rack that has 15 tray capacity, able to do 15-20 lbs of grains at a time, it holds a steady temp of 120 f (49 c) So getting the gelatinized grains dry isn't an issue, and these will keep on a shelf for month or two ... 2nd reason for drying gelatinized grains is running them trough the grain mill wet, can get messy, and can create a situation for bacteria, or mold to grow inside the grain mill.

Your a ramblings are appreciated

However in order to get beer from what farmers call sweet feed you will need enzymes or a koji type mold to convert the starches in the grain, otherwise you're just creating a rumbullion with grain flavor.

I didn't realize you intended to malt the grain. As long as the seeds are viable, it should work.