Cold Enough For Clean Fermentation?

[the_goat_Birdman]

Hi all,

Making a schwarzbier with S-23 for a local competition. After a 72-hour lag time, fermentation took off after I warmed the wort up a little by leaving it in my warm garage. It was initially around 42F and after warming up it was about 50 degrees, which is low but near the recommended range. I have left it to go for a day now in my keezer, set to 50F. A sample I pulled this evening smelled off like some previous batches that fermented too warm, but the fermenter temp was 50F. It tasted fine, not at all funky, just very sweet, so fermentation has a long way to go.

Where should I set my probe to ensure it is cold enough for clean fermentation? As of now I have it on the top of the fermenter in the airspace, which was reading 60F. It has now been cooled to 45F. I also set my Inkbird to 45F, because I know yeast likes to warm up the environment when fermentation begins.

Let me know!

 

[Minbari]

My opinion is to measure the beer, not the air. As you said, fermentation generates heat, so air temp may not be a good indicator.

Either get a thermowell or tape the probe to the side of the fermentor

 

[Craigerrr]

The temperature range for S-23 is 53F to 59F, I am curious why you have it fermenting so much cooler than that?
I agree with @Minbari beer temperature is what you need to measure. I personally just tape the probe to the side of the fermenter with a bit of reflective over it.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I hate S23 yeast. That $h1+ is so fruity that it comes off sweet. The weird thing is that the colder it gets, the fruity it seems to be. If you're going to use it again, ferment it warm, 62-65F. Some people love that yeast and they ferment warm with it. Otherwise do what everybody else does and use 34/70.

34/70 is a far better yeast in my opinion. It works really well from 50-65F. It really does well under pressure and drops quickly, plus it's a workhorse. It's a very forgiving yeast. If you want to try your hand at liquid, 2124 is even better. If you don't have any way of injecting pure oxygen at pitch, stick to dry yeast.

I hope it works out for you and you win a medal with it.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

The temperature range for S-23 is 53F to 59F, I am curious why you have it fermenting so much cooler than that?
I agree with @Minbari beer temperature is what you need to measure. I personally just tape the probe to the side of the fermenter with a bit of reflective over it.

I am worried about off flavors from fermenting too warm.... ruined 2 batches in a row from that.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

The temperature range for S-23 is 53F to 59F, I am curious why you have it fermenting so much cooler than that?
I agree with @Minbari beer temperature is what you need to measure. I personally just tape the probe to the side of the fermenter with a bit of reflective over it.

The probe is on the side, reading 45F. Should be plenty cold. Meanwhile the actual temperature of the liquid is around 50F, which is what the recipe recommends.

 

[Josh Hughes]

I hate S23 yeast. That $h1+ is so fruity that it comes off sweet. The weird thing is that the colder it gets, the fruity it seems to be. If you're going to use it again, ferment it warm, 62-65F. Some people love that yeast and they ferment warm with it. Otherwise do what everybody else does and use 34/70.

34/70 is a far better yeast in my opinion. It works really well from 50-65F. It really does well under pressure and drops quickly, plus it's a workhorse. It's a very forgiving yeast. If you want to try your hand at liquid, 2124 is even better. If you don't have any way of injecting pure oxygen at pitch, stick to dry yeast.

I hope it works out for you and you win a medal with it.

This

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

I hate S23 yeast. That $h1+ is so fruity that it comes off sweet. The weird thing is that the colder it gets, the fruity it seems to be. If you're going to use it again, ferment it warm, 62-65F. Some people love that yeast and they ferment warm with it. Otherwise do what everybody else does and use 34/70.

34/70 is a far better yeast in my opinion. It works really well from 50-65F. It really does well under pressure and drops quickly, plus it's a workhorse. It's a very forgiving yeast. If you want to try your hand at liquid, 2124 is even better. If you don't have any way of injecting pure oxygen at pitch, stick to dry yeast.

I hope it works out for you and you win a medal with it.

Yes, I have used 34/70 and got fantastic results with it. The recipe said S-23, and my LHBS just got some in, so I was eager to use it. Now all I can do is worry....

 

[Craigerrr]

I am predominantly an Ale guy, but I have a question for those experienced with lager yeast. Is the goat fermenting at too low of a temperature?
I understand that the recipe says to ferment this low, but this seems to be below the recommended temperature range for this yeast.

 

[Minbari]

I am predominantly an Ale guy, but I have a question for those experienced with lager yeast. Is the goat fermenting at too low of a temperature?
I understand that the recipe says to ferment this low, but this seems to be below the recommended temperature range for this yeast.

I wouldn't go below 55F with that one

 

[Sandy Feet]

Yes, I have used 34/70 and got fantastic results with it. The recipe said S-23, and my LHBS just got some in, so I was eager to use it. Now all I can do is worry....

Or relax and have a home brew. If it doesn't do what you wanted, you learned something.

 

[Gary Clark]

To me, a constant temp is important. That's why I use a small chest freezer for my fermenter, Good luck.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I am predominantly an Ale guy, but I have a question for those experienced with lager yeast. Is the goat fermenting at too low of a temperature?
I understand that the recipe says to ferment this low, but this seems to be below the recommended temperature range for this yeast.

It’s completely dependent on the yeast. Some yeast do well cold (2124), others do better warmer (34/70). 833 likes it above 50f like 34/70. 2124 can go from 46 to 64f. Pressure fermenting works really well with 2124 or 34/70. S23 doesn’t do do well under pressure.

 

[Blackmuse]

@the_goat_Birdman
I couldn't agree more with the those recommending 34/70... I have had s-23 in my fridge for over a year now and have failed to use it as 34/70 is just so reliable and easy to use at a wide range of temperatures - admittedly too - I prefer it fermented close to or just above 60.

As for the S-23 temp. You do seem low. When you say you had ruined two previous batches, where were you reading your temps and can you describe the off-flavors? I always tape my probe to the side of the fermenter under a bit of foam to (hopefully) get the most accurate reading.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

@the_goat_Birdman
I couldn't agree more with the those recommending 34/70... I have had s-23 in my fridge for over a year now and have failed to use it as 34/70 is just so reliable and easy to use at a wide range of temperatures - admittedly too - I prefer it fermented close to or just above 60.

As for the S-23 temp. You do seem low. When you say you had ruined two previous batches, where were you reading your temps and can you describe the off-flavors? I always tape my probe to the side of the fermenter under a bit of foam to (hopefully) get the most accurate reading.

I was reading the internal temp through my inkbird probe taped to the side. I actually posted about it in this thread here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum...-potential-characteristic-of-the-yeast.17245/

If you don't want to read it, the off flavors made the beer taste like apple cider, with a hint of plastic. I originally believed it was infection, but after brewing the same recipe with Voss I had a fantastic result, leading me to believe that the root cause was the ferm temp only.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

@the_goat_Birdman
I couldn't agree more with the those recommending 34/70... I have had s-23 in my fridge for over a year now and have failed to use it as 34/70 is just so reliable and easy to use at a wide range of temperatures - admittedly too - I prefer it fermented close to or just above 60.

As for the S-23 temp. You do seem low. When you say you had ruined two previous batches, where were you reading your temps and can you describe the off-flavors? I always tape my probe to the side of the fermenter under a bit of foam to (hopefully) get the most accurate reading.

I always thought too warm was a bad thing, but too low could only mean a risk of stuck fermentation, which I'm not worried about.

 

[Minbari]

I was reading the internal temp through my inkbird probe taped to the side. I actually posted about it in this thread here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum...-potential-characteristic-of-the-yeast.17245/

If you don't want to read it, the off flavors made the beer taste like apple cider, with a hint of plastic. I originally believed it was infection, but after brewing the same recipe with Voss I had a fantastic result, leading me to believe that the root cause was the ferm temp only.

Apple and plastic is from acetaldehyde. tied to yeast health and ending fermentation too soon. You always want to let the beer sit for a few days after active fermentation is done.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

Apple and plastic is from acetaldehyde. tied to yeast health and ending fermentation too soon. You always want to let the beer sit for a few days after active fermentation is done.

Yes, I am aware of the causes. The beer sat at fermentation temp on top of the yeast cake for an additional week before I took another sample and saw no change. Two weeks for ales is plenty of time in my experience for fermentation to complete.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I ferment mine for two weeks, but I also pitch the living shit out of my lagers. They have taken off within 18-24 hours, but that was 34/70 at 55 with double my normal high ale pitch. If it took a few days to take off, you might have needed to let it sit for that much longer. I like to run temps where the yeast is happy per the instructions.

 

[the_goat_Birdman]

I ferment mine for two weeks, but I also pitch the living shit out of my lagers. They have taken off within 18-24 hours, but that was 34/70 at 55 with double my normal high ale pitch. If it took a few days to take off, you might have needed to let it sit for that much longer. I like to run temps where the yeast is happy per the instructions.

It tastes pretty clean, although it smells like a fruit bomb. I will use W34/70 exclusively on my German lagers. I pitched 2 packs of S-23 on a 1.055 wort. Didn't do any pitch calculations....will do in the future. I am going to take your advice and relax a bit. Surely it can't be that bad.....