CARBONATION FROM PRESSURE FERMENTING

[Lynxpilot]

I've seen a post or two on this from lurking around but nothing seems to fit my scenario. I'm planning to make a large batch of dark lager and can pressurize my fermenter up to 15 psi. If I ferment under only a few psi until I'm ready to lager and then pump it up to 15 psi and lager it for maybe 4 weeks at about 35F, the carbonation chart shows plenty of carbonation for my beer style. I'm committed to bottling (as opposed to kegging) for reasons beyond the question. I know I'll lose some carbonation in the bottling process, but I'm wondering if I'll have enough anyway. Has anybody had any experience with this, and if so was it successful?

Thanks in advance

 

[Minbari]

I've seen a post or two on this from lurking around but nothing seems to fit my scenario. I'm planning to make a large batch of dark lager and can pressurize my fermenter up to 15 psi. If I ferment under only a few psi until I'm ready to lager and then pump it up to 15 psi and lager it for maybe 4 weeks at about 35F, the carbonation chart shows plenty of carbonation for my beer style. I'm committed to bottling (as opposed to kegging) for reasons beyond the question. I know I'll lose some carbonation in the bottling process, but I'm wondering if I'll have enough anyway. Has anybody had any experience with this, and if so was it successful?

Thanks in advance

Unless you have a differential pressure bottle tool. Not sure i would do it. When it goes from pressurize fermenter to no pressure in the bottle, it will foam like crazy

 

[Lynxpilot]

Thanks

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Unless you have a differential pressure bottle tool. Not sure i would do it. When it goes from pressurize fermenter to no pressure in the bottle, it will foam like crazy

It's no different than bottling from a keg. It works, you need to turn the serving pressure down when bottling. I use a older Blichmann bottling gun which doesn't have any way of pressurizing the bottle during filling. The important thing to remember is to fill slow, but not so slow that you get no foam. The foam acts as a oxygen barrier so you can "cap on foam".

As far as fermenting under pressure and carbonating in the same vessel, I do it all the time. 15 psi is not a lot of pressure, 20-25 psi is better, but it can be done. You will need it to be cold to get the carbonation high enough. I usually ferment lagers at 7.5 psi @ 50F, toward the end I bring up the pressure up to 20-25 psi @ 58F. In your case, you could bring the pressure up toward the end of fermentation to 15 psi and get some free carbon dioxide. As it cools close to 32F, the pressure will drop and you can bring the pressure up to 15 psi and finish carbonating the beer.

Good luck!

 

[Bigbre04]

i would force carb it after crashing it before lagering it. i dont really think you gain that much by doing the long and low.

 

[Minbari]

It's no different than bottling from a keg. It works, you need to turn the serving pressure down when bottling. I use a older Blichmann bottling gun which doesn't have any way of pressurizing the bottle during filling. The important thing to remember is to fill slow, but not so slow that you get no foam. The foam acts as a oxygen barrier so you can "cap on foam".

As far as fermenting under pressure and carbonating in the same vessel, I do it all the time. 15 psi is not a lot of pressure, 20-25 psi is better, but it can be done. You will need it to be cold to get the carbonation high enough. I usually ferment lagers at 7.5 psi @ 50F, toward the end I bring up the pressure up to 20-25 psi @ 58F. In your case, you could bring the pressure up toward the end of fermentation to 15 psi and get some free carbon dioxide. As it cools close to 32F, the pressure will drop and you can bring the pressure up to 15 psi and finish carbonating the beer.

Good luck!

Never had luck with it. Hits the warm bottle and poof, foam.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Never had luck with it. Hits the warm bottle and poof, foam.

I do it all the time. If the serving pressure is high, the beer just gushes. Turn the pressure down to 4-5 psi and it works beautifully. Some people claim the bottle needs to be cold, but I've never chilled the bottles. It's not much different than pouring into a glass.

 

[Bigbre04]

high carb beer needs to be extremely cold(like right above freezing in order to not foam. its very doable, but its not easy. you could pre chill all your bottles and sani, but you still want to stay above 12 psi or you are stripping your carb out very quickly.

 

[NorthWest Small Batch Brewing]

I'm late to the party but Dr. Hans did a video on this at one point with the math. You would have to pressure ferment at a very high level to get a fully carbonated beer at the end after chilling. The problem with that is fermenting at high pressure is detrimental to the yeast. It will stress the yeast and cause a bad fermentation or off flavors. The general consensus is to max pressure ferment ales up to 12 psi and Lagers up to 18 psi. This will help offset off flavors and allow to ferment at warmer temps if you have to do so. What I do (because I want to bottle condition about 10 bottles of my batches) is I open the spunding fully for the last week in the fermenter to release the CO2. It's past the main growth period and slowed at that point. Then I give it that last week to off gas so when I bottle I can accurately measure the sugar without residual co2 - and then I force carb the rest.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

You would have to pressure ferment at a very high level to get a fully carbonated beer at the end after chilling. The problem with that is fermenting at high pressure is detrimental to the yeast. It will stress the yeast and cause a bad fermentation or off flavors. The general consensus is to max pressure ferment ales up to 12 psi and Lagers up to 18 psi.

The pressure depends on temperature. The higher the temperature would mean a higher pressure typically. I only pressure ferment lagers at typical lager temps of 50-54F @ 7.5 psi. As the beer gets close to terminal gravity I raise the pressure to 25 psi and the temperature to @ 58F, the beer is fully carbonated. If you ferment at 62F, the pressure may need to come up to 15 psi or so. You can ferment at lower pressures and than toward the end spund the beer by bring it up to pressure to 25-30 psi, depending on the temperature.

This is no different than bottle conditioning or the traditional method of spunding that most Germen brewers do. You don't have to ferment at high pressures the whole time.