Adjuncts for IPA

[Sunfire96]

For a west coast IPA, would cane sugar and flaked wheat counteract each other? Here's an IPA recipe I'm toying with, and I added wheat for head formation/retention and cane sugar to dry out the beer. But I've also read that wheat increases body, while cane sugar lightens body/thins out the beer. Is it pointless to include both in the grain bill for this IPA?

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1137485/first-whack-ipa

 

[GFHomebrew]

For a west coast IPA, would cane sugar and flaked wheat counteract each other? Here's an IPA recipe I'm toying with, and I added wheat for head formation/retention and cane sugar to dry out the beer. But I've also read that wheat increases body, while cane sugar lightens body/thins out the beer. Is it pointless to include both in the grain bill for this IPA?

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1137485/first-whack-ipa

I think the wheat adds protine which enhances head retention yes and body so once in the wort you sugar addition should lighten the body again but I'm guessing your head retention addition from the wheat will remain.
Getting the best of both worlds a lighter crisp finish with good foam retention.

I know @Group W West coast had sugar in it and it looked killer good.

 

[Craigerrr]

Looks like you have a good recipe there. I use carapils/carafoam at about 5% which helps with head formation retention, but the wheat is a good option too.

 

[Herm brews]

That looks good to me, @Sunfire96
Like @Craigerrr I have been using Carapils in my brews, generally <5%. It seems to add body and a nice head.
This seems bigger than your usual batch size. Have you made an upgrade that I missed?

 

[Sunfire96]

That looks good to me, @Sunfire96
Like @Craigerrr I have been using Carapils in my brews, generally <5%. It seems to add body and a nice head.
This seems bigger than your usual batch size. Have you made an upgrade that I missed?

I have a 3 gallon fermonster that I usually brew 2.5 gallons in. But my boil kettle is only 12 qts, so to get 3 gal in the fermenter I'll top off with some chilled boiled water

I also use my 1 gallon glass carboy regularly. Usually both fermenters are filled with something

 

[Mark Farrall]

You could try replacing the sugar with a longer, lower mash. Shouldn't kill the proteins from the wheat/carapils/carafoam. Though I do both on some of my dry Belgians, sugar and long, low mash, so you could also do the belt and braces approach.

 

[Mark Farrall]

Just happened to be listening to this after posting here and thought it had a bunch of interesting discussion about how to brew a modern IPA, of any type, though it does focus on triples. They thought that if you're chucking in enough hops you don't need to worry about wheat/carapils/carafoam as the hops themselves are foam positive enough on their own

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-98-how-triple-your-ipa

 

[Sunfire96]

Thanks for the replies everyone. That sounds interesting Mark, I'll give it a listen

 

[Nosybear]

For a west coast IPA, would cane sugar and flaked wheat counteract each other? Here's an IPA recipe I'm toying with, and I added wheat for head formation/retention and cane sugar to dry out the beer. But I've also read that wheat increases body, while cane sugar lightens body/thins out the beer. Is it pointless to include both in the grain bill for this IPA?

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1137485/first-whack-ipa

In a way they will. The sugar provides alcohol and thins body - to be honest, I don't know why you want it in a West Coast IPA, where you need malt flavor to balance the hops. Flaked wheat provides a very small amount of flavor, some gums for body. Again, I don't know why you would want it in a West Coast IPA but there are two dimensions to the problem you posed. Flavor, both will work to reduce malt flavor, not something I'd want to do but hey, it's your beer. Body, the sugar will thin it, the wheat will increase it. Me, I'd go with an all-barley beer of two-row and some Crystal, maybe some Munich to add some color and malt complexity, and leave the sugar and the wheat flakes for a Witbier.

 

[Craigerrr]

Good points Nosy, I have either C60, or Caramunich in all of my West Cost IPA's at 2-3%. Sometimes some wheat malt, have never added sugar to one.

 

[Craigerrr]

I just thought to look at Wayners, Munich II 8.6%, and Caramunich I @ 3.4%, that and 2 row

 

[Sunfire96]

In a way they will. The sugar provides alcohol and thins body - to be honest, I don't know why you want it in a West Coast IPA, where you need malt flavor to balance the hops. Flaked wheat provides a very small amount of flavor, some gums for body. Again, I don't know why you would want it in a West Coast IPA but there are two dimensions to the problem you posed. Flavor, both will work to reduce malt flavor, not something I'd want to do but hey, it's your beer. Body, the sugar will thin it, the wheat will increase it. Me, I'd go with an all-barley beer of two-row and some Crystal, maybe some Munich to add some color and malt complexity, and leave the sugar and the wheat flakes for a Witbier.

Some great points, thank you. I'm trying to remember the source, but I remember hearing/reading that thinning out an IPA makes them "more drinkable." I do have some carahell and/or Vienna, but I'm trying to stay away from a lot of caramel malts (I overdid it with caramel pale ales the last few months).

My goal with this is beer is a refreshing, 5.5-6% abv, dry, quaffable beer that has a good amount of bitterness and hop flavor/aroma. I'm open to suggestions on how to accomplish those points

 

[Sunfire96]

Here's a different version of the recipe with carapils and carahell subbed in:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1145425/first-whack-caramel

 

[Craigerrr]

For the flavor that you are looking for, it sounds like you are more interested in brewing an American Pale Ale, as opposed to an IPA. Just reading 18B American Pale Ale seems to describe what you are looking for, no mention of any caramel flavors. Little copy paste for you below. Also a screen shot of a David Heath recipe (I have not brewed this), he has a recipe writing guide for this style on his you tube channel if you want to check that out. Hope this helps

Flavor: Moderate to high hop flavor, typically showing an
American or New World hop character (citrus, floral, pine,
resinous, spicy, tropical fruit, stone fruit, berry, melon, etc.).
Low to moderate clean grainy-malt character supports the hop
presentation, and may optionally show small amounts of
specialty malt character (bready, toasty, biscuity). The balance
is typically towards the late hops and bitterness, but the malt
presence should be supportive, not distracting. Caramel flavors
are often absent or fairly restrained (but are acceptable as long
as they don’t clash with the hops). Fruity yeast esters can be
moderate to none, although many hop varieties are quite fruity.
Moderate to high hop bitterness with a medium to dry finish.
Hop flavor and bitterness often lingers into the finish, but the
aftertaste should generally be clean and not harsh. Dry hopping
(if used) may add grassy notes, although this character should
not be excessive.

Style Comparison: Typically lighter in color, cleaner in
fermentation by-products, and having less caramel flavors than
English counterparts. There can be some overlap in color
between American pale ale and American amber ale. The
American pale ale will generally be cleaner, have a less
caramelly malt profile, less body, and often more finishing
hops. Less bitterness in the balance and alcohol strength than
an American IPA. More balanced and drinkable, and less
intensely hop-focused and bitter than session-strength
American IPAs (aka Session IPAs).
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.045 – 1.060
IBUs: 30 – 50 FG: 1.010 – 1.015
SRM: 5 – 10 ABV: 4.5 – 6.2%
Commercial Examples: Ballast Point Grunion Pale Ale,
Firestone Walker Pale 31, Great Lakes Burning River, Sierra
Nevada Pale Ale, Stone Pale Ale, Tröegs Pale Ale

Tags: standard-strength, pale-color, top-fermented, northamerica,
craft-style, pale-ale-family, bitter, hoppy

 

[Sunfire96]

My 3 gallon fermenter is going to be busy for a while, so I decided to scale both recipes down to 1 gallon and brew them both back to back. Then taste test side by side and decide which beverage I like more thanks for the advice everyone

 

[Sunfire96]

Got the flaked wheat/cane sugar version brewed today. I don't expect the color of this one to be stellar, and I have a tough time getting US05 to floccuate sometimes (no ferm temp control or cold crash capabilities).

I upped the Simcoe addition to 11g and it smelled amazing during flameout. Fingers crossed

 

[AHarper]

For a west coast IPA, would cane sugar and flaked wheat counteract each other? Here's an IPA recipe I'm toying with, and I added wheat for head formation/retention and cane sugar to dry out the beer. But I've also read that wheat increases body, while cane sugar lightens body/thins out the beer. Is it pointless to include both in the grain bill for this IPA?

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1137485/first-whack-ipa

Sorry Annabrit - recipe set to private.

 

[Sunfire96]

Sorry Annabrit - recipe set to private.

Oops! Thank you, I think I got it

Here's what I ended up brewing today:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1146845/first-whack-ipa

 

[Sunfire96]

And here's the recipe from the first post of the thread:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1145749/first-whack-ipa

 

[AHarper]

For the flavor that you are looking for, it sounds like you are more interested in brewing an American Pale Ale, as opposed to an IPA. Just reading 18B American Pale Ale seems to describe what you are looking for, no mention of any caramel flavors. Little copy paste for you below. Also a screen shot of a David Heath recipe (I have not brewed this), he has a recipe writing guide for this style on his you tube channel if you want to check that out. Hope this helps

Flavor: Moderate to high hop flavor, typically showing an
American or New World hop character (citrus, floral, pine,
resinous, spicy, tropical fruit, stone fruit, berry, melon, etc.).
Low to moderate clean grainy-malt character supports the hop
presentation, and may optionally show small amounts of
specialty malt character (bready, toasty, biscuity). The balance
is typically towards the late hops and bitterness, but the malt
presence should be supportive, not distracting. Caramel flavors
are often absent or fairly restrained (but are acceptable as long
as they don’t clash with the hops). Fruity yeast esters can be
moderate to none, although many hop varieties are quite fruity.
Moderate to high hop bitterness with a medium to dry finish.
Hop flavor and bitterness often lingers into the finish, but the
aftertaste should generally be clean and not harsh. Dry hopping
(if used) may add grassy notes, although this character should
not be excessive.

Style Comparison: Typically lighter in color, cleaner in
fermentation by-products, and having less caramel flavors than
English counterparts. There can be some overlap in color
between American pale ale and American amber ale. The
American pale ale will generally be cleaner, have a less
caramelly malt profile, less body, and often more finishing
hops. Less bitterness in the balance and alcohol strength than
an American IPA. More balanced and drinkable, and less
intensely hop-focused and bitter than session-strength
American IPAs (aka Session IPAs).
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.045 – 1.060
IBUs: 30 – 50 FG: 1.010 – 1.015
SRM: 5 – 10 ABV: 4.5 – 6.2%
Commercial Examples: Ballast Point Grunion Pale Ale,
Firestone Walker Pale 31, Great Lakes Burning River, Sierra
Nevada Pale Ale, Stone Pale Ale, Tröegs Pale Ale

View attachment 15417
Tags: standard-strength, pale-color, top-fermented, northamerica,
craft-style, pale-ale-family, bitter, hoppy

Craig, Is there anything against using Dextrine instead of the Carapils? I believe them to be interchangeable but I have never used either - but I do have a bag of Dextrine.