Lagering questions

[Semper Sitientum]

Now that I have the capability to control my fermentation temps., I’m going to try my hand at a pilsner and schwarzbier. In doing some research, I’ve seen advice to cool wort <60, pitch yeast, ferment at 50 until within 5 points of FG, raise to 70 for the remainder. Then, in the next breath, “the beer will improve if kept just above 32 for four weeks.“ So, my questions are:

- What will I miss/how will the beer be deficient if I follow the first advice?
- What temp should I ferment at?
- If I’m going to lager, at what point do I start reducing the fermentation temp and is there a schedule on how fast this should happen; i.e., do I reduce by a number of degrees per day?
- How long do I lager for and is there a schedule to raise the temp. before, in my case, bottling?

 

[Sandy Feet]

What yeast? If 34/70, I would pitch around 62. Lager at 55 until low krausen, D Rest at 62, and let it finish there.
Never tried it in bottles. I assume you let it carbonate around 62, and cold crash/lager once carbonated.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

What will I miss/how will the beer be deficient if I follow the first advice?

Pitching at warmer temps is an option, but if you can pitch at fermentation temps, it would be better due to reduced esters. Your fermentation temps are yeast dependent. I wouldn't raise it to 70, 60F is plenty high, but it could hit 65F with no problems.

What temp should I ferment at?

The choice of yeast is the biggest consideration to temperature. If you use Fermentis 34/70 as Sandy mentioned, (IMHO it is the best lager yeast for a first lager), it doesn't do very well below 50F. It's really good in the low 50's and is even good in the low 60's. Pitch rate is another thing to consider. 2-3 packs of 34/70 in a 5 gallon, 1.050ish batch is my recommendation, leaning more toward 3 packs at lower temps. Hydrating the yeast in some bottled water prior to pitch will improve the lag phase time.

If I’m going to lager, at what point do I start reducing the fermentation temp and is there a schedule on how fast this should happen; i.e., do I reduce by a number of degrees per day?

Let the beer finish completely after a d-rest, no need to slowly drop the temp during or after fermentation. Once it's done, crash cool it to as close to 32F that you dare. The fast cooling drops yeast and 32F will clear the beer quicker. Try to keep the beer from sucking back in the airlock if you can. Crashing cooling works best under pressure, but do your best to keep oxygen out.

How long do I lager for and is there a schedule to raise the temp. before, in my case, bottling?

Bottling is tricky with a lager, you may want to let the beer finish (d-rest and all), bottle it, keep it at room temp until it's fully carb'd and then crash cool it and lager it in the bottle. Lagering can take place in a fermenter, keg or bottle.

Good luck! My favorite beers to brew and compete with are lagers.

 

[Minbari]

Pitching at warmer temps is an option, but if you can pitch at fermentation temps, it would be better due to reduced esters. Your fermentation temps are yeast dependent. I wouldn't raise it to 70, 60F is plenty high, but it could hit 65F with no problems.

The choice of yeast is the biggest consideration to temperature. If you use Fermentis 34/70 as Sandy mentioned, (IMHO it is the best lager yeast for a first lager), it doesn't do very well below 50F. It's really good in the low 50's and is even good in the low 60's. Pitch rate is another thing to consider. 2-3 packs of 34/70 in a 5 gallon, 1.050ish batch is my recommendation, leaning more toward 3 packs at lower temps. Hydrating the yeast in some bottled water prior to pitch will improve the lag phase time.

Let the beer finish completely after a d-rest, no need to slowly drop the temp during or after fermentation. Once it's done, crash cool it to as close to 32F that you dare. The fast cooling drops yeast and 32F will clear the beer quicker. Try to keep the beer from sucking back in the airlock if you can. Crashing cooling works best under pressure, but do your best to keep oxygen out.

Bottling is tricky with a lager, you may want to let the beer finish (d-rest and all), bottle it, keep it at room temp until it's fully carb'd and then crash cool it and lager it in the bottle. Lagering can take place in a fermenter, keg or bottle.

Good luck! My favorite beers to brew and compete with are lagers.

Nothing more to say. That is pretty much how it's done

 

[Semper Sitientum]

Great info @HighVoltageMan! Thanks.

 

[Bigbre04]

I have had alot of luck with higher temp fermentations ~65-60F. I use Apex Munich Lager yeast. Over pitch it pretty heavily. Push O2 during knockout. Add YeastX to the boil. Ferments clean and quick. I currently have a big Red Lager that just finished fermentation at 16.5C. I have not needed to do a diacetyl rest on this yeast. I am able to push Lagers out in about 10 days(they sit in the kegs for a few weeks).

 

[Semper Sitientum]

One more question…..

So I brewed my first schwarzbier, cooled to 50, pitched yeast, raised temp to 55 after a couple of days, held for a week and then slowly raised to 58. That’s when things took a turn…for the colder. My fermenter is in my Inkbird enabled chest freezer in my garage. The past several days in suburban Atlanta we had nightly temps in the 20s and 30s, which has pushed my fermentation temp down to 50. This Friday will be 3 weeks since brew day. Not sure what to do. I can bring the fermenter inside, but the coolest area in my house would be 68. Or, should I bottle and lager? Thoughts.

 

[Minbari]

One more question…..

So I brewed my first schwarzbier, cooled to 50, pitched yeast, raised temp to 55 after a couple of days, held for a week and then slowly raised to 58. That’s when things took a turn…for the colder. My fermenter is in my Inkbird enabled chest freezer in my garage. The past several days in suburban Atlanta we had nightly temps in the 20s and 30s, which has pushed my fermentation temp down to 50. This Friday will be 3 weeks since brew day. Not sure what to do. I can bring the fermenter inside, but the coolest area in my house would be 68. Or, should I bottle and lager? Thoughts.

You need a heater. Either a heat band on the outside of the fermenter or a submersible heater. I used an aquarium heater for years.

Just make sure your ink bird does both modes

 

[dmtaylor]

You don't need a heater. If it's finished with no off-aromas, then you can package it up now. If it needs time to get rid of sulfur or diacetyl, just bring it inside, it will be fine at 68 F for a little while.

 

[Semper Sitientum]

I think I’ll do both. The current batch is finished fermenting, so I’ll go ahead and bottle. But, I’m going to want to brew more lagers over the winter so I’ll go ahead and get a heating band.

 

[Yontsey]

Not the same, but might work just as well. I'm in Cleveland and temps have been down in the teens and my kegerator is outside on a patio so I'm trying to keep everything at a decent temp. I ordered a seed heating mat off Amazon with an Inkbird and am putting that at the bottom to combat freezing temps. In principal, should work the same to get it up to 55˚.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Before the wife passed, she used to laugh like hell at me using her old 90210 hair dryer from the 80s getting my refrigerator up to temp 3 or 4 times a day. We get in the teens maybe once a decade or so. The hairdryer works for ales when the temps are 40s or 50s lows (maybe upper 30s for a night) and 60s highs. That is what I call winter. Lower than that, you need other toys.

 

[Donoroto]

I think I’ll do both. The current batch is finished fermenting, so I’ll go ahead and bottle. But, I’m going to want to brew more lagers over the winter so I’ll go ahead and get a heating band.

I use one of those heating pads, used for a bad back. I use a bungee cord to hold it to the fermenter body. On its lowest setting it keeps my fermenter at 70 even while the garage is 40. Inside a fridge of course.