I'm a relatively new brewer and understand that hops are what causes bittering, but it also adds flavor and aroma. I generally like to brew stouts and porters but I slide toward the milk stout types that tend to be sweeter and less bitter. I want to get good flavor and aroma without the bitter taste. what hops are out there that will add flavor and aroma without bittering? This might be a weird question for some but being relatively new (and I don't mash) I'm fairly clueless when it comes to hopping. Thanks.

Some bittering is necessary to balance the malt sweetness, even in beers where there is not a bitter component. The level of malt sweetness, and alcohol will determine the bittering needed for balance.
That being said, the bittering is determined by the quantity of hops, the alpha acid level in the hops, and the time that the hops spend in the boil. 60 min is the normal time in the boil to extract bittering from the hops, and of course, the higher the alpha acid level, the more bittering is extracted. later hop additions will add more flavor/ aroma depending on the time the hops are added to the boil. You will get lots of discussion as to the best time for the best results, but a good general theory is that the later a hop is added to the boil the more it will contribute to the aroma, and the less to the bittering. Flavor is usually in the middle, past the halfway point. like I said, different brewers will have different procedures, hoping for different results.

As a new brewer, decide what beer you want to brew, find an established recipe (plenty of help here if you need it) and after brewing it, decide if the bittering level is where you want it, and if not, adjust. Just remember that a lot of things will effect hop efficiency. Boil time, partial vs full boil, hop sack vs free additions, yeast type and quantity, length of time in storage. freshness of hops, ect.. Get brewing and work it out from there.

I think I posted this before but here ya go,

AMARILLO
8-10% Bittering, Flavor Oils 1.5-1.9
A flowery, citrus-like aroma (more orange than grapefruit) with medium bittering value that is gaining acceptance as a substitute for Cascade due to its hardy nature.
Used For: Good for bittering and flavor, but an acceptable aroma hop as well. Pale Ales, IPAs, Porters
Substitutes: Cascade, Centennial

CASCADE
4-7% All purpose Oils 0.7-1.4
Flowery, citrus & spice with grapefruit the noticeable fragrance quite often. This medium aroma balances the low bittering value. Derived from a cross between fuggles and the Russian hop Serebrianker. Very popular hop among craft brewers.
Used For: Good for flavor and aroma, but an acceptable bittering hop. Pale Ales, IPAs, Porters
Substitutes: Amarillo, Centennial, Ahtanum

CENTENNIAL
9-11% Bittering - Aroma Oils 1.5-2.3
Flowers & citrus most evident. A medium aroma with mid to high bittering value makes it a dual purpose choice. Cross between Brewer's Gold and a selected USDA male.
Used For: Aromatic but acceptable for bittering. Medium to Dark American Ales, IPAs.
Substitutes: Cascade, Amarillo

CHINOOK
11-13% Bittering Oils 1.7-2.7
Mild to medium-heavy, spicy, distinct piney aroma like a pine forest washed with exotic spice and infused with grapefruit. This alluring aroma and a high bittering value has gained this hop full respect from craft & major brewers. Cross between Petham Golding and USDA select male
Used For: Strong bittering ability. Most beer styles from Pale Ales to Lagers
Substitutes:: Eroica, Galena,Cluster,Nugget, Bullion

CITRA
10-11% All Purpose Oils 2.2-2.8
Very fruity Citrus, peach, apricot, passion fruit, grapefruit, lime, melon, gooseberry, lychee fruit, pineapple, mango, papaya and other tropical fruit flavors and aromas. A very new high alpha Hallertauer Mittelfrüh, Tettnanger, EKG hybrid with distinctive citrus aroma.
Use For: Pale ales, IPA
Substitutes: Simcoe ,and other fruity citrusy "C" hops

COLUMBUS
13-16% All Purpose Oils 2.0-3.0
Earthy, spicy, pungent, with some citrus overtones. Not overwhelmingly citrus like Cascade. High on the bittering scale yet also valued for its oil content creates a hop that is an interesting dichotomy of sharp and herbal, suprisingly pleasant aroma.
Used For: Bittering mainly, good flavor. American IPAs & Pale Ales, Stout, Lager
Substitutes: Centennial, Chinook, Galena, Nugget, AKA Zeus/Tomahawk

FUGGLE
4.0-5.5% Finishing Oils 0.7-1.2
Classic English aroma hop with moderate bittering value. Mild and pleasant, spicy, soft, woody, with some fruit tones. Also known over-seas as Styrian Golding.
Used For: Finishing, Dry hopping. English ales, especially Pale ales, Porters, Stouts.
Substitutes: Willamette, East Kent Goldings, Styrian Goldings.

GOLDING
4-5% Finishing Oils 0.7-1.0
Refined Gentle, Fragrant and pleasant with flowery tones, that has produced some of England's best bitters.
Used For: Classic English ales, kettle hopping, dry hopping, spicy flavor. All English-style beers (Ales, ESB, Bitter), Belgian-style Ales
Substitutes: Kent Goldings, Fuggle, Willamette.

HALLERTAU
5-6% Finishing Oils 0.6-1.0
Named for its origins in the Hallertauer region of Germany, this is a noble aroma hop with ever-so-subtle flower and spice fragrances defining its “über alles” superiority.
Used For: Good all around bittering and finishing. Stock ales, Belgian ales, and Continental style lagers. Pilsner, Bock, Lager, Wheat
Substitutes Mt. Hood, Liberty, Crystal.

LIBERTY
3-5% Finishing Oils 0.6-1.2
American cousin to Hallertau with very similar flower and spice characteristics, mild and pleasant, quite fine. Best used as a finishing hop in German-style lagers.
Used For: Finishing. American and German ales, Lager, Pilsner, Bock, Kölsch
Substitutes: German Hallertau, Mt. Hood, Crystal.\

MAGNUM
12-17% Bittering Oils 1.8-2.2
A German thoroughbred with limited Pacific Northwest plantings. Prized for its high bittering value, the aromatic nature is one of spice and citrus, but is minimal compared to its big bittering.
Used For: Pale Ales, IPAs, German-style Lager
Substitutes: Galena

MT. HOOD
5-8% Finishing Oils 1.2-1.7
Hybrid of Hallertau with similar mild flower/spice aroma characteristics with a hint more of the forest. “Clean” commonly describes it, with similarities to the German Hallertau and Hersbrucker varieties
Used For: Aroma and flavor. American and German ales and lagers, Pilsner, Bock
Substitutes: German Hallertau, Liberty, Crystal.

Mosaic
11-13% Finishing Oils 1.0-1.5
earthy, grassy, herbal, citrus, cedar, tropical, spice and stone fruit notes adding to the pine-based pungency
Used for: Brown Ales, IPAs, Pale Ales

NORTHERN BREWER
7-11% All Purpose Oils 1.5-2.0
A true dual-purpose hop containing moderate amounts of alpha acids combined with an acceptable aroma profile. Neutral, clean aroma, woody with evergreen and mint overtones and slightly higher-than-average bittering value.
Used For: Good for bittering with strong flavors and very fragrant. Steam beers, English-style Ales, ESB, Bitter, Porter, and German lagers.
Substitutes: Galena, Perle.

NUGGET
11-16% All Purpose Oils 1.8-2.2
Strong heavy and herbal, spicy aroma and high bittering value (along with desirable growing traits) has brought this hop variety to the forefront of the industry. Selected from a cross between Brewer's Gold and a high alpha male.
Used For: Extremely bitter. All Ales, Stouts
Subs: Chinook, Galena, Cluster

PERLE
7-9% All Purpose
A palate-pleaser with its moderate,pleasant, minty clean bittering qualities and refreshing, spicy "green hop" aroma. Derived from English Notheren Brewer.
Used For: bittering and good aromas. A wide range from Pale Ale to Lager to Stout
Substitutes: Northern Brewer, Cluster, Galena

SAAZ
3-5% Finishing Oils 0.7-0.9
The Old World steadfast standby made famous by Pilsner Urquell possesses the aromatic blend of earth and spice notable in European nobles. Low bittering value.
Used For: Finishing, very flavorful. Bohemian-style beers, Continental lagers, Wheats, Pilsener lagers.
Substitutes: Czech Saaz (some would claim there is no substitute), Tettnang (Only in a pinch), U.S. Saaz (some would claim there is no substitute)

SIMCOE
12-14% - Bittering - Flavor Oils 2.0-2.5
Aromas of passionfruit, apricot, Intense pine and woodsy aroma adds to the fresh, youthful vigor of this complex hop. Dual purpose but generally considered a bittering hop.
Used For: American Ales, IPAs, Double IPAs
Subs: Amarillo Cascade Centennial (a blend of these might come closer)

SORACHI ACE
13-16% Bittering Oils 2.0-2.5
A Japanese winner by all counts with its powerful lemon aroma, high bittering value and flavorful personality.
Used For: American Ales, lagers, Pale Ales, Wheat
Substitutes:

TETTNANG
4-5% Finishing Oils 0.4-0.8
Fine, very spicy, mild, floral, very aromatic. Recently established in the U.S., traditional German variety, true noble aroma variety.
Used For: Finishing. Wheats and lagers.
Substitutes: Saaz, Spalter, Ultra

WARRIOR
14.5- 17.0% Bittering Oils 1.0-2.0
Grapefruity and lemony, some piney notes. Also saw pineapple as a descriptor. Its high bittering value and very mild aroma offers new dimensions to IPA & Double IPA brewers.
Used For: bittering big beers like Dogfish Head IPA.
Substitutes: About any high alpha

WILLAMETTE
4-6% Finishing Oils 1.0-1.5
The king of aroma hops in the U.S. with its modest bittering value and the joyous harmony of flowers, fruit, earth and spice. A quality aroma hop with a smooth soft flavor.
Used For: Finishing, dry hopping. American and British ales and lagers.
Substitutes: Fuggle, Styrian Goldings, Kent Goldings.

another thing that can help is picking the right yeast, some yeast will cut the hop flavor in half, in most cases a stout will just have 1 hop in the beginning and the sugar evens it out, try to stay in the 20% ibu range over all if you don't want any bitterness and some sweetness

like so

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/r ... milk-stout

im trying to find replacements for opal and rakau hops from what is available to me, from what I have read I could replace opal with ek goldings and rakau with Amarillo.
was also thinking of Motueka, mosaic, galaxy and citra as substitutes for rakau.
I am trying to recreate the sidartha of suburbia saison recipe https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/7442/siddhartha-of-suburbia-saison
on here with the following list of hops bellow.
any ideas?
thanks

Brewer #186349 said:

im trying to find replacements for opal and rakau hops from what is available to me, from what I have read I could replace opal with ek goldings and rakau with Amarillo.
was also thinking of Motueka, mosaic, galaxy and citra as substitutes for rakau.
I am trying to recreate the sidartha of suburbia saison recipe https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/7442/siddhartha-of-suburbia-saison
on here with the following list of hops bellow.
any ideas?
thanks

Click to expand...

maybe I should put this elsewhere

I haven't brewed with rakau, but drunk a few with it in the mix. I'd go for motueka or citra from your list. I wouldn't use the motueka for the 60 minute addition. I tend to use a neutral bittering hop at 60 minutes, something like warrior or magnum as any flavour and aroma is largely boiled off. But if you don't have any on hand then the citra at 60 would work.

And if you want a more obvious hop flavour and aroma move the 10 minute addition to flame out and do the second citra and first motueka addition at that point. Also think about just leaving the hops in the wort at flameout for 20-30 minutes to get all the oils out (not sure how much time is needed to get the oils, but I just use the 30 minutes to wash up and get stuff ready and the temperature doesn't drop quickly enough to worry about contamination).

Edit: though tropical flavour king for me at the moment is galaxy. And EKG is wonderful, but much more subtle than the others and could easily get overwhelmed.

Mark Farrall said:

I haven't brewed with rakau, but drunk a few with it in the mix. I'd go for motueka or citra from your list. I wouldn't use the motueka for the 60 minute addition. I tend to use a neutral bittering hop at 60 minutes, something like warrior or magnum as any flavour and aroma is largely boiled off. But if you don't have any on hand then the citra at 60 would work.

And if you want a more obvious hop flavour and aroma move the 10 minute addition to flame out and do the second citra and first motueka addition at that point. Also think about just leaving the hops in the wort at flameout for 20-30 minutes to get all the oils out (not sure how much time is needed to get the oils, but I just use the 30 minutes to wash up and get stuff ready and the temperature doesn't drop quickly enough to worry about contamination).

Click to expand...

ok so citra for the rakau and Motueka for the opal. is Motueka not a good bittering hop?
I can get the warrior and magnum

If you're getting citra use that as the bittering hop, it's got a decent alpha acid level. I wouldn't bother getting the others for this recipe, just if you had some on hand.

Mark Farrall said:

If you're getting citra use that as the bittering hop, it's got a decent alpha acid level. I wouldn't bother getting the others for this recipe, just if you had some on hand.

Click to expand...

ok thanks for the input, citra galaxy ekg sounds up my street

Missed the bittering hop question (and sorry if this is too much detail). I see a bittering hop as one you add to just add clean bittering flavour to counteract the residual sweetness in the wort. The clean bitter taste generally comes from applying heat to alpha acids that transforms them into iso-alpha acid, with is measured (roughly) in IBUs. There's a bunch of other bittering components in hops but most of them fall into the too hard basket for the current generation of home brew calculators so we generally ignore them at the moment (though there's certainly places that will give you opinions about these).

The calculator wil tell you how much hops you need to add to get to a certain IBU based on how long you're planning to boil it. The citra has nearly twice as much alpha acid as the motueka so you'll need to add twice as much to get the same amount of iso-alpha acids. As they don't add much flavour and aroma because of the longer boil you're better off going for the higher alpha acid hop so you don't have as much hop residue stealing your wort (either when you don't add it to the fermenter or when you package)

Mark Farrall said:

Missed the bittering hop question (and sorry if this is too much detail). I see a bittering hop as one you add to just add clean bittering flavour to counteract the residual sweetness in the wort. The clean bitter taste generally comes from applying heat to alpha acids that transforms them into iso-alpha acid, with is measured (roughly) in IBUs. There's a bunch of other bittering components in hops but most of them fall into the too hard basket for the current generation of home brew calculators so we generally ignore them at the moment (though there's certainly places that will give you opinions about these).

The calculator wil tell you how much hops you need to add to get to a certain IBU based on how long you're planning to boil it. The citra has nearly twice as much alpha acid as the motueka so you'll need to add twice as much to get the same amount of iso-alpha acids. As they don't add much flavour and aroma because of the longer boil you're better off going for the higher alpha acid hop so you don't have as much hop residue stealing your wort (either when you don't add it to the fermenter or when you package)

Click to expand...

no not too much at all that makes sense now, so I can work Ibu numbers to achieve a certain target strength. thanks!

Adding hop flavor without bittering is probably not possible. However, if you shift your hop additions to a whirlpool with a reduced temperature you will get some bittering and more aroma/flavor. I regularly brew pale ales and IPA's without any boil additions, only whirlpool additions. This allows me to add a lot of hops without an overpowering bitterness. Flavor and aroma are through the roof, but bitterness is not.

I whirlpool at 170F for 20 minutes and estimate utilization at 3%. You will need to use a calculator, like the one on this website.

HighVoltageMan! said:

Adding hop flavor without bittering is probably not possible. However, if you shift your hop additions to a whirlpool with a reduced temperature you will get some bittering and more aroma/flavor. I regularly brew pale ales and IPA's without any boil additions, only whirlpool additions. This allows me to add a lot of hops without an overpowering bitterness. Flavor and aroma are through the roof, but bitterness is not.

I whirlpool at 170F for 20 minutes and estimate utilization at 3%. You will need to use a calculator, like the one on this website.

Click to expand...

yeah I've just been reading about whirlpool and hopback.
whirlpool is technical term for stirring slowly I presume?
I put hopback in to my recipe (plonk a bag in for some time) so will do a addition after boil as it cools and I also am doing no chill, as no chiller, no bathtub and I can't make enough ice to make much impact on bringing temp down in any short period...
will dry hop as well

Brewer #186349 said:

whirlpool is technical term for stirring slowly I presume?

Click to expand...

Yes and no. The tradition whirlpool in brewing is a rest after the boil, the wort is "whirlpooled" in the boil kettle. In big systems it's done with a pump, home brewers usually do it with a ladle or spoon and get the wort spinning in the kettle. It makes a cone in the center of the boil kettle and helps settle out the hops and hot break.

The way I do it is to lower the temperature after the boil to @170F and then I add my hops, it gets stirred occasionally. The lower temperature prevents the alpha acid from isomerizing and creating bittering compounds. They still do isomerize a little bit, but it's a lot less than the boil. So you can set you utilization rate under the whirlpool option in the calculator to 3% to get a fairly accurate idea of bitterness.

The whirlpool is important in preventing blockages when pumping large amounts of beer in larger breweries.

There's competing opinions on whether you should bother with the actual whirlpool activity at homebrew scale (or even craft brewing scale). So when I read whirlpool hops I always just steep the hops in the hot water and don't stir up the wort.

The competing opinions come from experimental evidence showing that cloudier wort provides more nutrients and a healthier and faster fermentation, compared to the clearer wort you get in your fermenter if you do the whirlpool step. There's also some evidence that your finished beer will be clearer with a faster, healthier fermentation, even with a cloudier starting wort.

ok I understand now, thanks.
one other thing, I bought citra for the bittering and some galaxy, ekg and Motueka for the whirl pooling and dry hopping. smelling the citra is amazing but so much stronger than the others, will do a 60 and 1 or two late boil additions of citra.
do you think im waisting the others, trying to compete with the citra?

Galaxy will hold it's own with the citra (we've done a few with those) and I've tried some pretty big IPAs with motueka, so I expect it will hold it's own. I'm more worried about the EKG. I like it in a standard saison, so it may be lost playing with those other hops.

funny just went and had a sniff of them and my nose concurs with what you say above, galaxy then Motueka and ekg further back in terms of strength.
thanks mark!
I might just save the ekg for something else then.